Played a very marginal, borderline trash from the button, but due to the price and position I called the limp 4 way.

Villain seemed pretty competent. Hadn't showed down any garbage and wasn't a loose player. Firing from the small blind seemed strong. But I had a weak pair to the board and the flush draw and decided to go to the turn.

When he fires the turn I am putting JJ/55 in his range but also considered non preflop raised AA, KK, even QQ from the SB on a board with no straight draws. There was no good reason to, just what I was thinking at the time. So while I considered JJ or 55 I didn't assume that was all he could have and I had the 777 and flush draw. If it is 55 I have a redraw so I am not drawing dead.

I guess the question here is am I better off assuming FH when the board pairs and I am facing aggression assuming I am up against a competent player?


Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

PL Omaha $0.02(BB)
CO ($0.40) [VPIP: 49% | PFR: 10.2% | AGG: 21.9% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 104]
HERO ($2.43) [VPIP: 27.8% | PFR: 17.1% | AGG: 33.8% | 3-Bet: 7.8% | Hands: 11735]
SB ($3.23) [VPIP: 26.3% | PFR: 13.5% | AGG: 41.4% | 3-Bet: 8.9% | Hands: 136]
BB ($2.66) [VPIP: 15.7% | PFR: 8.7% | AGG: 13.6% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 119]

Dealt to Hero: 7 3 Q A

CO Calls $0.02, HERO Calls $0.02, SB Calls $0.01, BB Checks

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.75 effective]
Flop ($0.08): 7 J 5
SB Checks, BB Checks, CO Checks, HERO Bets $0.06 (Rem. Stack: 2.35), SB Raises To $0.26 (Rem. Stack: 2.95), BB Folds, CO Folds, HERO Calls $0.20 (Rem. Stack: 2.15)

Turn ($0.60): 7 J 5 7
SB Bets $0.30 (Rem. Stack: 2.65), HERO Calls $0.30 (Rem. Stack: 1.85)

River ($1.20): 7 J 5 7 2
SB Bets $0.80 (Rem. Stack: 1.85), HERO Calls $0.80 (Rem. Stack: 1.05)

i think you played it fine tbh. im getting to river like this also. the river you just got a bluffcatcher at this point so you'll just have to make best assumption on how hes been playing up to this point. can he have a bluff or somehow worse for value the 28% you need. youll have to make the in game judgement.

last to act in a four way pot u should just check and see the turn

I see a lot of players play flopped sets like this.

They either check raise all three possible flop sets
or
Bet top set and check raise middle or bottom set.

Baluga or someone had a theorem, don't go broke in a limped pot. If this guy had bet more on turn and river he could have maybe got your whole stack, therefore your flop bet is just bloating the pot without knowing what anyone has.

Brunson wrote about (not going broke in a limped in pot) in Super System.

Yeah I'm starting to figure this out in PLO. Betting round actions are different than NLHE. I'm thinking in the same terms I would holding A7hh (not possible here but if the board was a little different, middle pair with nut flush draw) as opposed to how I should be thinking about it in PLO being against a wider range.

I don't mind the limp on the BTN, just understand you are playing mostly to overflush someone and get paid not to try to push people out with random other "hits".

... As PPG said, don't bet flop.

As played at these stakes, esp. with those stats. for SB, I just fold turn. You probably shouldn't even bet an A river if it checks to you and your biggest draw is never a bet when you hit.

Calling river is borderline insane without great reads, even if he only bet 1/2 pot (even if he's great enough to find some bluffs here he doesn't manage to find 25% combos of bluffs).

^^^^

What range do you think people have when they x/r the flop in a 4 way pot here? What range do you think they have when you actually have the nut draw? He has a set or J7 almost always. Maybe someone will go insane with a hand like 89T w/ type hands but this doesn't look to be that guy.

Flop bet isn't as bad as people are making out IMO and could be fine/best even if we size down to HP. In a SRP it would be bad for a number of reasons - getting x/r is worse. Ranges are tighter anyway. People's calling ranges tighten up too.

Here, we have a ton of value to gain from worse FD's + SD's as well as maybe getting some better hands (eg. Jxxx with no FD or SD) to fold at some point.

As played, river is again (I think?) closer than others suggest. We block some of the FH and given the size I think it's possible we could be up against a worse 7x esp more so at these stakes. Against hp I completely disagree with above and think it's an easy call expecting to see a worse 7x that had a wrap or a bluff enough of the time. But yeah, facing this sizing I think it's a close fold.

ranges only get smaller.

You think SB with 26% VPIP is x/r flop with K7xx then only betting half pot on turn (because reasons) but now fires a third barrel with again just K7xx (or worse) for value? Against our obvious QQhh+ range? Instead of checking with what looks like a great bluff catcher?

Or maybe by the river he "knows" we have a better 7 and is just firing money into the abyss vs. the J7/75 part of our range in the hope to bluff us out of the exact hand we have?

Or maybe he x/r the wrap on the flop, then down bets 1/2 pot without a 7 on this second worst possible turn card (because other reasons) but now finds the courage to fire a third barrel to bluff us off a better draw on this blank river?

I mean I guess the case for the other side is only: he has JJ/J7 and thinks "x/r flop for max value vs. draws" and on the turn "lol I have the nuts, please call and hit something" and on the river "flush missed, bummer, please call".

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think you are missing that this is 2PLO.. people at these stakes don't know how to play their hands correctly... they just see "I've got a 7, may as well bet it" - and not sure why you think he has K7.... makes more sense for his hand to be a wrap/SD with a 7 + a FD.

Anyway I'm not disagreeing with the fold even - I just said it's closer than others were thinking and that against HP I think we should call. Both theoretically and in practice.

Also worth pointing out that J7xx with nothing to go with it isn't pot raising this flop 4 way from a competent opponent. So the combos we are beat by again is a little less - it's mostly just JJ and 55 that's the main part of their range we're beat by.

I’m fine with pre and I’m fine with betting flop initially. No one has showed any interest yet, were in fine shape if called and can call a check raise with nut draw. I also call check raise.

Turn is tough. We’re getting a good price but sometimes are dead or just drawing to a boat. I definitely fold river. Calling is solely bluff catching. V should never be making this play with just trip 7s. He has a boat or some kind whiffed wrap. We aren’t getting a great price and have no reason to think he’s bluffing a lot so o let it got.

The biggest reason I should of folded here is the population is not bluffing the river at these stakes from what I found in my small sample size in my data. It is 100% value and usually the nuts/effective nuts. I think I called the river here because of the bet sizing. Most players are potting the nuts.

Agreed with this generally. The fact that you have the Ah really reduces the hands he could be bluffing with too.

My personal observations of 2plo population tendencies:
- flop x/r range is ~ 80% sets
passive players check/call all their draws, while the more aggressive players donkpot them. Semibluffs as x/r are very rare in headsup pots and even rarer in m-way pots.
From the few players that actually raise with a draw a sizeable amount (guessing ~60%+) choose a tiny raise size compared to their normal raises (between minraise to 1/2 usually).
Occassionally there will be a table bully like aggro guy or a someone who has very poor understanding of his handstrength, who goes crazy, but those persons are spotted very fast.
- betting is very value heavy on turn and especially river. Many players don't bluff at all or only when there is no significant action on earlier streets. Passive players only bet close to the nuts, while aggressive players bet pretty much everything with SD value (big merged range).

Thinking about your particular hand:
I do like the flopbet.
Pot looks like an orphan and you will often times pick him up right then and there.
If you get called, you have good equity against the mixture of one pair hands, weird straight draws, curiosity calls and dominated flushdraws.
If you do get raised, you don't have to fold, because at this limit, opponents will have a set very often and they will pretty much never fold it for any kind of bet, should you hit on the turn. Since you are reasonably deep, I believe you got the implied odds to call a raise.
Turn is not so clear to me, half pot makes me more inclined to fold. The opponents that x/r 55 on the flop are not very likely to chose a smaller sizing on the turn. I'm very often crushed.
River is clear fold to me. I would sigh-call on A and Q rivers though.

i would go

call preflop
check flop multiway, although betting is fine too
call the c/r otf
call turn
fold river

people at these limits play pretty much faceup and honest, especially this guy, in these spots multiway and i would be very suprised if he shows up with anything less than a boat here.