Monker says flop is ok, but turn im supposed to check back all combos.

- Is it because eff SPR is so low that we can GII with 2 bets?
- Is it to allow villains to put in a vbet with a flush?

I checked every option after checking back turn and there is no instance where we dont stack off on every river.

Probably monker just views it as a bad card for your overall range, and sees more value in (slightly deceptive) checkback.

I'm going to deploy my trademark suspicion over your use of Monker here.

Like, what preflop ranges are you even using? To that end, I'd be slightly surprised if this combo is a good flat when we're 100% going MW or getting squeezed.

That said, postflop looks good to me. Flop bet doesn't need to be quite so small, imo, but it makes little difference.

I'm using monker preflop ranges? Lol what other ranges could I even use?

...you can literally use whatever you want? I don't understand why you're acting like I'm being confusing.

To run a postflop spot you can stipulate whatever ranges you want.

If you're starting from a preflop sim, I just wouldn't assume that many preflop sims have so much flatting in their game tree. This is, like, my entire question/point: where are you getting your ranges, and should we assume they're accurate enough to the real-life hand? This matters more and more as we get further from the (relative) computational simplicity of heads-up pots.

I vaguely remember that Matrix has some squeeze ranges, so they're using some amount of calls in their stuff but I'm pretty sure those preflop ranges are stuck on their website and you can't import them into Monker.

Edit: and just to be clear, I do have the 200bb 6max preflop sim from the Monker cloud available to me (the 100bb is broken for me; idk) and only BB can flat UTG's RFI. So if you mean these sims, unless the 100bb one includes these calls (it may), then I don't know what you mean by "the Monker ones" unless you have a ton of RAM and are running this stuff yourself from preflop.

i thought that the title " deviating from solver" and using monker in my OP would be enough for you to assume the ranges i was using. i wasnt being sarcastic.


yes im starting from a preflop sim. i have 128GB of ram and make the trees myself. i allow cold calls for every spot in single raise pots. why? because at the stakes i play its what i run into alot of the time.

Thanks for clarifying the trees/ranges you're using; that was my whole question.

I still think it's worth being a little skeptical/qualified about taking such a "vacuum" approach to Monker for this hand. (And I'm honestly surprised that even 128 GB is enough to run a MW spot with cold calling. There's every chance that you haven't made a mistake, but I'd be nervous about something important being missing from my game tree.)

All that said, I would assume that we're checking in Monker because OTT we're way ahead/way behind. KK shouldn't be mega uncommon for our opponents, so we don't want to value-eviscerate ourselves.

We also block diamonds a little bit (reducing opponents' continues), and Monker tends to care about that kind of thing fairly often.

My guess regarding the river is that Monker is in Monkerland (which is pretty far from reality in most games, on this street specifically), and players' strategies will have a lot of unrealistic (if obviously theoretically sound) bluffs for one thing. In addition, wider ranges from the checked-through turn mean that we're relatively higher in our own range on the river than if we had bet turn. This means our near-nuts can be more aggressive.

And to look at it slightly differently: checking turn allows us to have a wider value range OTR. If we're betting both flushes and FHs on the river (and get more bets in with FHs in general), I'm not shocked by that being a higher EV line for our range than betting turn (which may generate too many folds and fewer bets/less EV overall).

...I think! I'm guessing at the logic of a sim I'm not personally looking at, so many grains of salt obv

no problem..
the only way it will work is if i only give one postflop sizing..75% with pot size re-raises..thats it. the tree comes out to 118 GB and takes like 20 ****ing minutes to load LOL but w/e.. i saw a video with nandez when he mentioned that 75% is good enough to create a sim as long as you still create a seperate sim for postflop questions. Which im guilty of only doing it for turn/river ( now ive been doing flops too though as im exploring different flop sizes (33,50,66,100) which im not using them all, just looking at the options on dry boards vs wet boards, mono vs paired, etc)
yep..i cant even run the river because when i gave the option for 33,50,66,75,100 on just the flop..monker did not choose 33 with my hand lol
It actually chose 75 which i thought was interesting, the only combos it chooses 33 with is QTT8,KTT8,AKT8 and AAT8 i believe ( its not in front of me at the moment) so if i run the turn with 75 cbet and 2 calls the ranges will be even further from accurate ( considering they are probably already off given villains dont play optimal) so i see it as just wasting time. i did do a flop analysis though which i think is beneficial.

Yeah, you ask if monker would have villain vbet a flush there, but... you can just check on monker, that's the whole point of having monker right? Anyway, multiway sims lulz.

If I had to guess, no, it's just because you have a hand that's very medium, but which can happily put money on all rivers, and you don't wanna narrow your opponents range that much.

Just basic stuff, multiway pots, bets across multiple streets = polarise.

Even more simply put, like, you're not getting called by worse here very much, or, you know, shouldn't, anyway. You will get bluffed some, though... so check.