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Small Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 1/2 and below pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 03-13-2018, 04:28 PM   #1
RalphWaldoEmerson
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couple 3bps

SB: 116.5 BB (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 15.64, 3Bet Preflop: 7.21, Hands: 2,021)
BB: 84.95 BB (VPIP: 51.72, PFR: 27.59, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 29)
Hero (CO): 100.58 BB
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 38.83, PFR: 19.41, 3Bet Preflop: 6.79, Hands: 721)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J 2 9 J

Hero raises to 3.5 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 11 BB, Hero calls 7.5 BB

Flop: (22.5 BB, 2 players) A T 9
BB bets 13.33 BB, Hero raises to 61.5 BB, BB raises to 73.95 BB, Hero calls 12.45 BB


V is a fish.
call flop and re-eval? problem is almost every turn card is bad for us.


BTN: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 23.65, PFR: 15.39, 3Bet Preflop: 6.90, Hands: 1,987)
SB: 33.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
Hero (BB): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T T Q Q

BTN raises to 3.5 BB, SB calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 14 BB, BTN raises to 45.5 BB, SB calls 30 BB, Hero raises to 100 BB, BTN calls 54.5 BB


SB is unknown fish, BTN is weak reg, RFI BTN 50%.
is this a pretty standard stack off once SB sticks it in (obv not thrilled about it) or is there any reason to peel and xf 765ss flop?



CO: 206.36 BB (VPIP: 36.40, PFR: 18.73, 3Bet Preflop: 5.13, Hands: 288)
BTN: 82.59 BB (VPIP: 30.65, PFR: 8.54, 3Bet Preflop: 2.78, Hands: 199)
SB: 39 BB (VPIP: 40.04, PFR: 21.96, 3Bet Preflop: 4.90, Hands: 546)
Hero (BB): 112.5 BB
UTG: 111.5 BB (VPIP: 35.94, PFR: 9.22, 3Bet Preflop: 1.96, Hands: 218)
MP: 115.25 BB (VPIP: 56.23, PFR: 38.11, 3Bet Preflop: 18.87, Hands: 270)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9 Q J K

UTG raises to 3.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 11 BB, UTG raises to 33.5 BB, Hero calls 22.5 BB

Flop: (67.5 BB, 2 players) J 2 8
Hero bets 66.5 BB



V is a bad reg, recent holdem convert, seems a bit clueless preflop, playing 39/11 yet I saw him open J774ss from HJ/CO and call a 3bet, which is quite bad.
I thought assuming his range is AA pre, we have enough equity to call and stack off when we flop a pair, and he may well make mistakes postflop.
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:44 PM   #2
Purasevic
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Re: couple 3bps

Hand1 Can not make conclusions about villain`s 3bet tendencies after 27 hands,but

as played would fold this.If Ah was on flop so you have second nfd and a pair can understand, but this flop looks like you might have been dominated and got it in drawing very slim.

Hand2 When sb calls,i would advice calling as well,don`t see point in shoving.

Hand3 I think well played,agree leading flop is good here.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:25 PM   #3
RalphWaldoEmerson
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Re: couple 3bps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purasevic View Post
Hand1 Can not make conclusions about villain`s 3bet tendencies after 27 hands,but as played would fold this.
fold pre or otf?
yeah I guess we can just fold to cbet, although we are at 85bbs eff. here, not 100. how shallow would you be stacking this otf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purasevic View Post
Hand2 When sb calls,i would advice calling as well,don`t see point in shoving.
If we just call, there is 121bbs in the pot and we have 55 behind, which makes flop play very awkward, I guess we can xf the absolute worst kinds of flops, but it seems questionable.
Even a board like A93cxx, it's bad for our hand, but it's hard to calculate our overall equity bc of the sidepot, and we might still have to gii.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:50 PM   #4
Purasevic
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Re: couple 3bps

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Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson View Post
fold pre or otf?
yeah I guess we can just fold to cbet, although we are at 85bbs eff. here, not 100. how shallow would you be stacking this otf?
I would not fold pre JJds unless i know player is very tight and this one doesn`t seem so.Very difficult to say how shallow we need to be to stack of here.Spr here was slightly over 3,let`s say i would not feel bad if Spr was 2 to go all in here.

QQTT hand didn`t see sb is already all in.Very difficult to say what would be profitable move here. We have 31% against AA and let`s say 40% sb range,but main pot would be bigger than side pot.I guess the best would be to flat call pre.
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:12 PM   #5
Huch
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Re: couple 3bps

I know I'm not awesome at this yet, but here are some thoughts, for what they are worth.

Hand 1: I don't like this as played OTF. We're in marginal/bad shape against a lot of very easy to have hands, and even fish show up with monsters from time to time. If Villain is really a fish, he'll put the money in with us in a better spot. I feel like playing like this vs a fish inverts their primary weakness, putting too much money in with weak holdings, into a strength. I mean, do we really want them to gii with A596 against us, and be dominating? I fold to his Cbet OTF.

Hand 2: When you say BTN is weak reg, what does that mean exactly? Your 3bet pre seems standard given his BTN RFI%, But when a 'weak' player 4bets here, are you not ranging him strongly towards AA/KK hands? Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but I don't understand why you want to put 100bbs in with him pre in that spot?

Hand 3: Seems standard to me against perceived AA. We have pair + gutter etc, etc. I would bet/gii here like you did, to try and grab and fold equity that might be there too. We're just sad when he shows up with the NFD in addition to his AA, or something even better like AAJJ/ KQJ9 with clubs or what not. But I think playing this hand weakly for fear of monsters under the bed is leaving money on the table in the long run.
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:27 PM   #6
lucaspawpaw16
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Re: couple 3bps

Hand 1 - Wtf? "Villain is a fish" and we're jamming J high flush draw into him ...

Hand 2 - With SB 33bbs in there we can probably just make the 4 bet call..i dont love it though as villain should be AAXX. 5 betting is not the answer - the problem is the SPR is so low that we either hit the board or fold.

Hand 3 - no need to 3 bet this OOP - just call
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Old 03-20-2018, 11:25 AM   #7
poloplaya1414
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Re: couple 3bps

Hand 1:

Definitely call and reevaluate. I don't like the "lots of scary turn cards logic" for two reasons. 1) A lot of cards are very good for us, specifically hearts and Js. 2) If villain is really a fish, we can expect him to play fairly face-up. If scare cards come and he barrels, giving ourselves the chance to fold is a good thing.

Hand 2: I don't know if I would 3bet this pre OOP. Would rather see a flop cheaply 3-way. As played, with no fold equity, no reason not to just call and see what happens on the flop. Getting it in on most flops, but the opportunity to fold something like a 765 board is valuable.

Hand 3: I would also not 3bet this. Against a late position open, sure, but not against UTG. As played, I'm fine with calling the 4bet, but would rather c/c than just jam it in OTF. I agree that villain's range is weighted towards AA, but I don't think he'll fold it, so why get it in as a 40-60 dog unless we have to?
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:45 PM   #8
RalphWaldoEmerson
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Re: couple 3bps

Consensus seems H1 was a bit spewy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloplaya1414 View Post
Hand 2: I don't know if I would 3bet this pre OOP. Would rather see a flop cheaply 3-way.
why is the focus on "seeing a flop cheaply" (that describes every decent hand in our range) rather than increasing the pot size with a hand that is a clear equity favorite against both opponent's ranges?
And I think BTN opening 50% folds to our sqz a decent amount there, I think vs. MP/CO I prefer to flat pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloplaya1414 View Post
I agree that villain's range is weighted towards AA, but I don't think he'll fold it, so why get it in as a 40-60 dog unless we have to?
because they fold AA
At least that's what happened here...I mean it's not a great spot for him holding AAT5 hearts/diamonds when BB 3bets an EP open and calls a 4b...and some NLHE converts fold too much in PLO.
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:18 PM   #9
poloplaya1414
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Re: couple 3bps

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson View Post
why is the focus on "seeing a flop cheaply" (that describes every decent hand in our range) rather than increasing the pot size with a hand that is a clear equity favorite against both opponent's ranges?
And I think BTN opening 50% folds to our sqz a decent amount there, I think vs. MP/CO I prefer to flat pre
.
Because our hand has a relatively polarized equity distribution. We're in great shape when we hit a set, and usually in bad shape when we don't.


Quote:
because they fold AA
At least that's what happened here...I mean it's not a great spot for him holding AAT5 hearts/diamonds when BB 3bets an EP open and calls a 4b...and some NLHE converts fold too much in PLO
In my experience, holdem converts tend to overvalue their AAxx and stack off far too often. I guess YMMV, but I wouldn't expect folds from AAxx here.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:26 PM   #10
RalphWaldoEmerson
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Re: couple 3bps

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloplaya1414 View Post
Because our hand has a relatively polarized equity distribution. We're in great shape when we hit a set, and usually in bad shape when we don't.
Same is largely true for KK, AA
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:35 PM   #11
poloplaya1414
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Re: couple 3bps

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Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson View Post
Same is largely true for KK, AA
I'm not 3betting those hands either unless they're very connected.
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:05 PM   #12
sdclaw
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Re: couple 3bps

Hand 1. Fold pre. As played fold to 3bet. As played fold flol.

Hand 2 the only way I am 3 betting this is if OR is really short or you are both 200bb deep. When you 3bet without AA. The problem is when u get 4 bet you are essentially pot commiting yourself with the worst hand almost always and while QQ1010 isnt a huge dog to a random AA hand you are really hosed if if he has aaqx or aa10x. The other issue is you have a really difficult hand to play OOP the 75% of the time u dont flop a set.
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