Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Call or Raise with flopped nuts

12-13-2017 , 02:43 AM
I tend to switch between both of these options in this situation depending on villain but was wondering what others thought.


Both of us are 125 bbs deep. PLO 200

I open UTG with KtQT to $7

SB makes it 20 - he hasnt 3 bet once yet in over 50 hands so im assuming this is AAxx. And he is playing quite tight

Board comes down AJK POT $40

SB makes it $30 to go

Im now pretty sure he has AAxx

Should we just float here or should we pot now to get as much in as possible.
I'm pretty sure hes not folding to a flop shove which will run our equities at about 65/35

Obviously there are pros for both approaches such as floating allows us to disguise hand and pot non paired turns which will allow us to get it in 75/25 . It also allows us to get away if the board pairs on the turn.

The downside is if we do float we can then only get in a PSB of $100 on the turn if checked to.

Im curious what the more seasoned players reccommend in this position
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-13-2017 , 04:03 AM
When villain 3bets he will have a range that is very high card heavy so he has a range advantage on this board leading me to believe raising here is not great. You also have to consider whether you have bluffs when you raise here (as well as the nuts & other value hands) or not. Overall it's better to call, protects your range a bit and on total brick turns you can GII with a bit better equity than on the flop. Vs. a villain who has top set nearly always here you can raise GII as an exploit but if he ever has hands in his 3bet range that aren't AAxx you're losing potential value by folding out his air like if he 3bets hands like D's middling rundowns and such.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-13-2017 , 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolarAU
When villain 3bets he will have a range that is very high card heavy so he has a range advantage on this board leading me to believe raising here is not great. You also have to consider whether you have bluffs when you raise here (as well as the nuts & other value hands) or not. Overall it's better to call, protects your range a bit and on total brick turns you can GII with a bit better equity than on the flop. Vs. a villain who has top set nearly always here you can raise GII as an exploit but if he ever has hands in his 3bet range that aren't AAxx you're losing potential value by folding out his air like if he 3bets hands like D's middling rundowns and such.


Thanks mate - good analysis


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-13-2017 , 10:06 AM
I like raising very small here,just to make sure there would be only pot size bet left on turn.Agree that most balanced approach is just to call here,but as said villain is not

floding,so we want all the money to goes in.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-13-2017 , 03:00 PM
Call, in position and fold to turn or board pairing. Because you have a clear understanding of his range you can play near perfect on turn and rivers - oop a C/C then donk non pairing boards is good, or just lead pot, but in position if you raise and get it in the V will not be making a mistake by getting all his chips in equity wise, especially if he has backdoor FD or a GS. If he gets all his chips in on the turn then he is making a mistake most of the time if he just has a boat draw.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-13-2017 , 06:29 PM
What do you think villain on the turn after you flat call the flop?
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-13-2017 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUMBLE.
What do you think villain on the turn after you flat call the flop?
Some scenarios i feel knowing villain

- Board pairs - obvious


if a Q or T falls on the turn it will make it hard to milk value. It may also give him a potential straight also.

If a card with suit falls he may be inclined to protect against a BDFD which will allow me to donk and still get it in or check raise

If a blank falls on the turn its a toss up between him checking. depends on how balanced he is
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 03:58 AM
Quote:
I'm pretty sure hes not folding to a flop shove which will run our equities at about 65/35
Would raise so you have ~psb on turn.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUMBLE.
Would raise so you have ~psb on turn.
And what do you think that does to your entire range....?
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grethe
And what do you think that does to your entire range....?
What does calling do to our range?If we just call,can we ever have any bluff here?
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 11:17 AM
Exploitative adjustment based on a read and this being played live where you get like 1/3rd of the hands that you do online.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUMBLE.
Would raise so you have ~psb on turn.
Even a minraise basically has ~psb on the turn

---

Agree with raising because lollive
Agree with calling because his hand's face up and we can make exploit folds on board pairs

Probably should play some sort of mixed strategy with QT in theory depending on our sidecards
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by z0mgtiltz
Even a minraise basically has ~psb on the turn


Probably should play some sort of mixed strategy with QT in theory depending on our sidecards

:]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grethe
And what do you think that does to your entire range....?
Calling is definitely better as an overall strategy. Would call 100% vs good opponents unless I had a dynamic where I had a bluffing range here.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purasevic
What does calling do to our range?If we just call,can we ever have any bluff here?
How many bluffs do you want to have here against a somewhat tight liveplayer and what hands would you pick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HUMBLE.
:]
Calling is definitely better as an overall strategy. Would call 100% vs good opponents unless I had a dynamic where I had a bluffing range here.
So you agree calling is better as an overall strategy, but would raise this blocking a T and a K?
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 02:27 PM
The more often you play with a particular opponent, the more incentive there is to construct a balanced range.

Being live, I expect this situation to come up much less frequently since we are dealt fewer hands, thereby allowing us to make less noticeable exploitative adjustments.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 02:47 PM
Yeah also this just a broadway straight on a rainbow board. Slowplaying is so common here we don't really need to do it just to prove to our opponent that we are capable, everyone already assumes as much.

That said I think I prefer calling to make an "exploit fold" on the turn if board pairs. There are also a few hands like KTT9 that we keep in. But the EV difference shouldn't be too much, and I'm sure in an actual GTO strat our range does include some bluff raises and of course some raises with the nuts as well.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grethe
How many bluffs do you want to have here against a somewhat tight liveplayer and what hands would you pick?
:
I know that would not be balanced strategy,but i can not really find any bluff in our range when he bets with set face up.

The point is he is basically pot committed when he bets here.I guess maybe

we can have qq here,and raise to try him to fold eventual akxx but this doesn`t sound to good.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 02:53 PM
Bluffs you can have are KTT, JT hopefully with bdfd.

Standard flop raise, less than half pot turn bet, then 90% river.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 07:43 PM
This was online in case people think it was live.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-14-2017 , 08:22 PM
Great read.
Thanks to Everyone.
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-15-2017 , 02:51 PM
So we should just discard EV-calculations and the fact that we are holding two significant blockers, because it is livepoker and balance is overrated.... Great!
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote
12-15-2017 , 11:00 PM
what EV-calc? EV of raising flop vs gii on blank turn?
Call or Raise with flopped nuts Quote

      
m