What does that even mean? That people playing high stakes suck? Yes. They do.

It means that when Monker makes a determination regarding the profitability of an action it assumes it is up against much tighter ranges than the loose ranges we as humans are actually facing, not to mention we have greater realization post flop than the solver assumes the hand will have. Ergo when a hand is borderline in Monkerville its clearly profitable vrs population.

Two things:

a) some hands do not benefit from more players being in the pot, even if it's weaker ranges.

b) a lot of these hands are not "borderline".

Generally speaking vs looser ranges, we do not loosen our vpip by that much. Instead, we open less, flat a bit more IP or in bb, and mostly 3bet a lot more.

To demonstrate this point, here's the EV of flatting these hands vs BTN, CO, and HJ and no cc:







As you can see, our EV is actually worse against a loose range as opposed to a tight range.

Please note that this is a 200z rake sim, so at 5 cent, this EV of flatting in sb is godawful in general. I haven't seen a 5c sim, but I would imagine it might remove a flat frequency entirely.

My guess is you’re behind most people’s stack off range on the flop. You’re flipping with a lot of marginal hands

Inky, per Vision SB vrs CO+BTN 9876 suited to the 9 mixes calls and folds half of the time. I would think this would indicated that the overlays do increase our VPIP in Monkerville since 9876 always folds to a single opponent from either of those spots as you demonstrated in your sims.

If you have an edge post flop you are definitely throwing money away folding spots that are continues solver v solver. Perhaps hero is a person who has abundant opportunities that are worth more and I could see mucking it. Or if you believe the villains have an edge, but it would seem to me if your playing in a game that you believe you have an edge in, folding spots that are +EV is a poor strategy choice.

Hey, you are correct; we do call vs CO + BTN, although the EV is extremely close, and the factor of the rake will clearly trump it. Also note that CO + BTN is the only spot we'd flat this. We'd fold this vs MP BTN, MP CO, etc, so it's a spot that's extremely sensitive to changes in ranges, which, since we're assuming villains are playing off GTO, would be the case. I don't just ignore postflop edge, but generally speaking I think it's dangerous to use it as a crutch.

Finally the rake issue will just flat out make this not a thing. If we're assuming no rake, then I think calling is acceptable if you're confident of your postflop. I've certainly made this call before live when weak players are involved.

That said, considering OP's approach to the hand, I think it would serve them better to just nit up OOP. I think this is true for most players. We all have a lot of different parts of our games to work on, and I think flatting out of the SB with close hands is probably not on top of the list of priorities. If you play 3b/fold more, you're going to have more energy to focus on other spots that will reap bigger EV gains for the time required.

Do you think it would be a 3 bet if it were double suited?
I have been trying to 3 bet more and it has not been going well.

ds would be a snap 3b not even close. I'd 4b it also in my games. Obv ymmv.

I think the key to this hand was the button calling and also folding...
Look, we know the button has you beat pre flop but this hand is exactly what im looking for against the spew tard(i think thats what you youngters say). When the button called it also let me know he was sharing cards with Mr plays every hand. So ours are live. As soon as the button folded you were golden.
I think these are the spots where you can get out of "Standard" and start winning your game.
Look... had it been a reg or solid player no need to call with that run down oop, there will be better spots...but this is what you look for, you got heads up with a bad player and it cost you a flat call oop.
On a side note Im never giving Mr plays every hand credit for QQ...ever.
I just saw this and thought these are the spots that seem to fall beneath the cracks.
Gl @ the tables

This thread getting bumped treated me to reading this, and I just want to celebrate it.

I was low key sad nobody responded to it, so thanks. XD