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Small Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 1/2 and below pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 02-17-2018, 03:32 AM   #1
RalphWaldoEmerson
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3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

Hero (SB): 234.18 BB
BB: 67.33 BB (VPIP: 75.23, PFR: 10.55, 3Bet Preflop: 2.89, Hands: 448)
BTN: 110.92 BB (VPIP: 33.48, PFR: 22.96, 3Bet Preflop: 9.38, Hands: 1,176)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7 K K Q

BTN raises to 3.5 BB, Hero raises to 11.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 8 BB

Flop: (24 BB, 2 players) 9 8 4
Hero checks, BTN bets 17 BB, Hero calls 17 BB

Turn: (58 BB, 2 players) 3
Hero checks, BTN bets 57.25 BB, Hero raises to 114.5 BB, BTN calls 25.17 BB



idk wtf line is optimal, I thought maybe xr flop is best, but I had a lot of tables, ended up x/c flop

butchered?
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:31 AM   #2
abracadabranuts
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

flop is a easy and very standard cbet
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Old 02-17-2018, 01:43 PM   #3
Purasevic
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

Not a big fan of 3betting mediocre kings from sb.I like check calling on the flop,but on turn

it gets really awkward after he bets full pot.He is very aggressive according to stats,so

don`t mind getting it in on turn, although it is hard to expect to be big favorite.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:15 AM   #4
abracadabranuts
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

why do you both like c/c this flop? I would have thought it was a easy cbet but I'm 25plo noob
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:38 AM   #5
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

Cbet is definitely not bad play,but you need to have some strong hands when you check,

not just garbage that you check fold.This could be good candidate.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:02 PM   #6
RalphWaldoEmerson
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

Quote:
Originally Posted by abracadabranuts View Post
why do you both like c/c this flop? I would have thought it was a easy cbet but I'm 25plo noob
maybe the problem with cbetting in that particular spot is that there's a large amount of turn cards (any offsuit 5,6,7,T,J,Q, not to mention 8,9) where Hero has to check, and then when V pots it, we hate our life sooo sooo much.

I think with KK in particular flop plays better as a xc or xr and we should cbet more straight draw type stuff which is better protected on turns.

I'm also learning myself, not saying I know everything, hehe
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:08 AM   #7
lucaspawpaw16
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

i like a Xr here because its hard to get paid on a club if it hits by calling. Overpair and Flush draw is usally 50/50 against flopped two pair and you have fold equity.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:55 AM   #8
HUMBLE.
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

gii on flop.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:06 AM   #9
MIB211
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

I wouldn't 3-bet this hand from SB. I can tell from your threads you 3-bet OOP a lot more than I do. Not sure who's right except I suspect you play on a much more difficult platform than I do.

I used to treat this as a mandatory c-bet with tons of equity. I now check it sometimes, but doing so to check raise rather than check call. We're almost never in bad shape here. I think check call is the worst option. You're right if we c-bet and get called that we face tough decisions on blank turns, but we face the same issue if we check call. At least by c betting we get value from or clean up our equity against a bunch of one pair hands and random straight draws that would otherwise check behind. As played when we GII on turn we have no fold equity.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:35 AM   #10
Darkfangs
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB211 View Post
I wouldn't 3-bet this hand from SB. I can tell from your threads you 3-bet OOP a lot more than I do. Not sure who's right except I suspect you play on a much more difficult platform than I do.
It's a button open, he's likely opening around 50% here. Your 3-bet should be adjusted for opponents opening ranges. Look at all the value you are giving up, we also make the hand significantly easier to play OOP by the smaller SPR on the flop. There isn't really much of a downside here other than he 4-bets us and we have to fold but we shouldn't be basing any significant portion of our 3-bet range on how they perform in 4-bet pots for a number of other reasons.


ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcQcKd7h59.34% 352,8236,441
50%40.66% 240,7366,441




Edit: For comparison sake, not 3-betting here is like not c-betting flop with top two on KQ8cc because we don't have clubs and villian has his hand turned face-up on the table and showing AcXXXc.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:27 PM   #11
MIB211
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkfangs View Post
It's a button open, he's likely opening around 50% here. Your 3-bet should be adjusted for opponents opening ranges. Look at all the value you are giving up, we also make the hand significantly easier to play OOP by the smaller SPR on the flop. There isn't really much of a downside here other than he 4-bets us and we have to fold but we shouldn't be basing any significant portion of our 3-bet range on how they perform in 4-bet pots for a number of other reasons.


ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcQcKd7h59.34% 352,8236,441
50%40.66% 240,7366,441




Edit: For comparison sake, not 3-betting here is like not c-betting flop with top two on KQ8cc because we don't have clubs and villian has his hand turned face-up on the table and showing AcXXXc.
Interesting thank you. A couple of thoughts:

Why do you give BTN a 50% range? He's a 23% PFR. I understand he should be opening more from button, but how much more is he actually opening? My sense is that people are not as positionally aware as they should be and don't adjust their ranges for position that much. Agreed if he's raising 50% though this is a 3-bet.

I don't think hot and cold equity is the end of the discussion either. Pushing some equity may not be worth it if OOP because we will have a hard time realizing our equity on later streets.

All that said, I'm certainly willing to believe 3-betting is best here especially if V is raising very wide. Im used to deeper games with 3-bet pots often going multi way still which clearly impacts my thinking.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:50 PM   #12
Darkfangs
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

50% is close to a standard opening range 3-handed. I assumed he was a reg and didn't look at the stats. Also the part about hot and cold equities, it's why I have the flop distribution of equity chart shown. If you look at it, we flop 50%+ equity 70% of the time and 90% of the time we flop at least 45% equity, which basically means we can GII on a ton of different flops.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:58 PM   #13
MIB211
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkfangs View Post
50% is close to a standard opening range 3-handed. I assumed he was a reg and didn't look at the stats. Also the part about hot and cold equities, it's why I have the flop distribution of equity chart shown. If you look at it, we flop 50%+ equity 70% of the time and 90% of the time we flop at least 45% equity, which basically means we can GII on a ton of different flops.
Thanks I may be underestimating the strength of our hand here. Something to think about.

What tool do you use for the equity comps? I'd love to find something app based.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:53 PM   #14
Darkfangs
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Re: 3bp KK+nfd draw heavy texture

I don't know of anything app based but the above screenshot is just free off pro poker tools. There are a ton of tools to use for free or cheap and some that are very expensive. Pokerjuice and odds oracle are fairly good ones for low costs. I think PJ the first month is like $1 or something if you do a promo code, just google it.
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