We are in position and cbet on a paired flop board with a below Ten high flush draws, villain calls.

on the turn flush hits, action is check check,

river villains checks, do we value bet with like say 7, 8 or 9 high flush, given its a paired board?

some board examples are

553A8


898J4


Also say the action is cbet flop again paired with small flush draw, check turn to blank and river makes a flush, and again villain check river to us, do we bet this also for value or check it back?

Against most opponents its gonna be too thin, and good opponents will pick up on that quickly. I think most combos of low-mid FDs without anything else is good candidates to check back on paired flops.

I agree with this. It's obviously opponent and action dependent but hard to get value from worse. I'm more apt to bet if a high card is paired, esp A or K. Harder for someone to have an under full they play passively there and more likely someone has a good trips they can't fold.

only against really bad players I would value bet here

When you guys say the good opponents will pick up on it quickly and to do it only vs bad players what do you mean by this?

they will fold?
or raise bluff back?

Like the most common PLO thing ever is to bet ones hand strength relative to the board on the river. Like, oh I have a Q high flush on a paired board, so I bet half pot. Oh I have the nuts, so I bet pot. Oh I have almost the nuts so I bet 3/4 pot. etc.

People with experience are often aware of this, and if they notice you do this they can start stomping you in the face any time you bet something other than pot because they know you can't have the nuts, thus putting you in really awkward spots if you keep the behaviour up

Or tl;dr: That sort of betting turns your hand face up

They will attack your range where it is weak / too wide.

If someone if cbetting so wide on paired FD board, we can widen our CR range as a big part of the range will be in a tough spot and have to fold.
If someone is cbetting so wide on paired FD board, and checks and the flush completes, we can probably stab very profitable.

This is a couple of thougts of the cbetting part, there will be more that can be said about the cbetting and likewise alot that can be said about the thin value bet in how to adjust against it.

Good players will understand how cbetting wide and valuebetting thinly affects your ranges on all streets and use this too their advantage, obviously.

what if we only bet river 3/4 or pot even when value betting thin or betting the nuts? which i do actually?

What if our cbet range isn't too wide even betting low flush draws

For example we don't cbet hands that others sometimes do, basically say our cbet range is balanced with us cbetting the low flush draw.

and only using 3/4 and pot bet sizing as i mentioned for all river bets

If it is a HU pot at a 6-max table - probably not.
If it is a HU table - probably yes.

When playing HU, we need to squeeze value out of thin spots and if we are playing an aggressive game, we should get called by worse enough of the time to make it worth betting. If not, then our opponent is probably folding the river too often and we should accordingly adjust and bluff a lot more rivers.

Of course, it all comes down to reads, previous action, pot size, stack sizes etc. Impossible to give a general answer for HU play.

Well, i dont think that would make sense, and you would end up losing value with a lot of hands. Is this hand betting for value, protection or bluff? It only really makes sense as bluff because we block some of the opponents continueing range, but its akward when we hit. I guess the "basically say our cbet range is balanced with us cbetting the low flush draw." was just hypothetical to get some more answers, because it does not make a ton of sense to be betting betting majority of low-mid FDs here and checking back majority of K/A FDs e.g.

Bet size determine how many bluffs you should have in relation to valuebets. If you bet 3/4 here with mid flushes for value, after a cbet OTF you´re value range is extremely wide and i dont see how you could make that work.

If you´re betting way lower OTR, i could see it possible to make your river range more balanced. But goes back to the fact that you will basicly cbet anytime you have a small piece OTF here, and therefore not have a lot of bluffs OTR, when you dont have many bluffs in your range, a small sizing works. I would not recommend this strategy, construct your ranges in a way so you have many bluffs in your ranges, and bet big.

Sorry if im rambling.
M

That's of course a way to combat peoples ability to exploit your bet sizings in that spot, yes On the other than, if you for example pot with the marginal value bets too (marginal strength wise) then the opponent can exploit that by over folding (since one doesn't need to hero call big bets with weak hands, you can simply call the big bets with stronger hands instead).

So a further way to balance in this spot is to bet some really strong nutted hands half pot size too, for example.

I might be mistaken with my balancing thinking here, by the way. I always just try to play in a way which makes it really hard to win money from me, so I try to do what I would hate if others did to me. For example it's ****ing annoying to hero half pot size bets on paired flush rivers, holding a low flush, and then the dude just has ***** top boat