Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Small Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 1/2 and below pot-limit Omaha poker

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-06-2020, 11:18 AM   #1
AnFearDearg
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 49
2PLO & 10PLO - Two critical flop decisions

Two hands from today.

Hand 1, i think is a bad decision when i run it through pro poker tools vs two pair type hands, or even one pair with TJ. Anyone folding to the x/r?

Hand 2, Is there ever a fold on the flop?

Can i play either hand differently? Did I over value both hands?


Hand 1
PokerStars Zoom, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players

UTG: $0.70 (35 bb)
MP: $2.02 (101 bb)
CO (Hero): $4.67 (234 bb)
BU: $1.76 (88 bb)
SB: $1.82 (91 bb)
BB: $2.31 (116 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with 6 5 8 7
2 players fold, Hero raises to $0.07, 1 fold, SB 3-bets to $0.23, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.48) 5 Q 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.26, SB raises to $1.24, Hero raises to $2.22, SB calls $0.35 (all-in)

Turn: ($3.66) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($3.66) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $3.66 (Rake: $0.12)

Showdown:
CO (Hero) shows 6 5 8 7 (a straight, Five to Nine)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 35%, Flop: 39%, Turn: 83%, River: 100%)

SB shows T A 8 A (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 65%, Flop: 61%, Turn: 18%, River: 0%)

CO (Hero) wins $3.54

Hand 2
PokerStars Zoom, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.05/$0.10 ($0.01 ante) - 6 players

UTG: $20.49 (205 bb)
MP (Hero): $12.85 (129 bb)
CO: $10.31 (103 bb)
BU: $19.24 (192 bb)
SB: $10.14 (101 bb)
BB: $10.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.21) Hero is MP with Q J 9 8
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.41, 2 players fold, SB 3-bets to $1.39, BB calls $1.29, Hero calls $0.98

Flop: ($4.23) A 2 T (3 players)
SB bets $4.05, BB folds, Hero calls $4.05

Turn: ($12.33) 3 (2 players)
SB bets $4.69 (all-in), Hero calls $4.69

River: ($21.71) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $21.71 (Rake: -$11.44)

Showdown:
SB shows 3 A A 2 (three of a kind, Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 56%, Flop: 54%, Turn: 60%, River: 0%)

MP (Hero) shows Q J 9 8 (a flush, Queen high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 44%, Flop: 46%, Turn: 40%, River: 100%)

SB wins $12.36
MP (Hero) wins $20.79

Last edited by AnFearDearg; 08-06-2020 at 11:43 AM. Reason: .
AnFearDearg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2020, 11:31 AM   #2
bender55
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3
Re: 2PLO & 10PLO - Two critical flop decisions

Hand 1. Easy check on flop. You donít have want to fold to a c/r nor put it in with a str draw.
Many hands you are drawing thin against.

Hand 2. No. Would have played it the same way.

Good luck!
bender55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2020, 04:41 PM   #3
wazz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
wazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: drinking in a saloon
Posts: 13,251
Re: 2PLO & 10PLO - Two critical flop decisions

Both interesting spots. Hand 1 is a check, but the logic for betting is that when he checks, it usually means he's whiffed with an overpair, and this is a board on which we can put pressure on that sort of hand; however, even against a non-covering gutshot and higher pair we're not doing great - we've actually got better equity with a pair and a gutshot than we do with an inside wrap. Check and prepare to fire when the board is even scarier for a dry overpair.

Hand 2 might be a fold on the flop. I'm assuming 3betting ranges are quite tight out of the SB in $10 zoom, and we could be up against the dreaded KKhhxx, let alone AAhhxx. Being wrapped around the T, and with a backdoor flush draw, complicates things, and if we have any read that suggests he would slowplay AA** with the nfd then we have to go with it, and others will be able to comment better on population reads, but I'd imagine enough people shrug their shoulders with top set + nfd and correctly assume that the best way to get paid is to assume their opponent has made a strong hand or draw and charge them accordingly. But that may be wrong. I would fold.
wazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 05:19 AM   #4
AnFearDearg
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 49
Re: 2PLO & 10PLO - Two critical flop decisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz View Post
Both interesting spots. Hand 1 is a check, but the logic for betting is that when he checks, it usually means he's whiffed with an overpair, and this is a board on which we can put pressure on that sort of hand; however, even against a non-covering gutshot and higher pair we're not doing great - we've actually got better equity with a pair and a gutshot than we do with an inside wrap. Check and prepare to fire when the board is even scarier for a dry overpair.
Thanks for replying. Im definitely overvaluing the inside wrap, will have to figure out how to check how often i do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz View Post
Hand 2 might be a fold on the flop. I'm assuming 3betting ranges are quite tight out of the SB in $10 zoom, and we could be up against the dreaded KKhhxx, let alone AAhhxx. Being wrapped around the T, and with a backdoor flush draw, complicates things, and if we have any read that suggests he would slowplay AA** with the nfd then we have to go with it, and others will be able to comment better on population reads, but I'd imagine enough people shrug their shoulders with top set + nfd and correctly assume that the best way to get paid is to assume their opponent has made a strong hand or draw and charge them accordingly. But that may be wrong. I would fold.
Im still stumped by this hand.

Even against AA, KK, 15% we have 44% equity

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: A 2 T
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
Qh Jd 9h 8d44.85% 264,8118,617
AA, KK, 15%55.15% 326,5728,617
AnFearDearg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 08:54 AM   #5
wazz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
wazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: drinking in a saloon
Posts: 13,251
Re: 2PLO & 10PLO - Two critical flop decisions

Almost no-one is 3betting 15% out of the sb.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
5,162,720 trials (Exhaustive)
board: A2T
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
QhJd9h8d39.57% 2,023,78437,855
AA**,AKK*,5%60.43% 3,101,08137,855

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
2,723,220 trials (Exhaustive)
board: A2T
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
QhJd9h8d38.10% 1,033,4678,394
AA**,AKK*61.90% 1,681,3598,394

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
5,152,880 trials (Exhaustive)
board: A2T
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
QhJd9h8d39.56% 2,019,67837,855
AA**,5%60.44% 3,095,34737,855

You need 40%. You're close, but no cigar. You can add in some rundowns if you like but you're blocking them; double pairs of course, or any other hand that has 3b pre and c-bets an A-high board, but he's c-bet for close to pot, and again I'd expect the population of $10 PLO zoom players to be 3betting a very tight range from the SB. Without doing the maths exactly we don't need him to be 3betting wide that often given our equity is close, but I just don't think it's often enough.
wazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 09:39 AM   #6
UserAbuser
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 150
Re: 2PLO & 10PLO - Two critical flop decisions

Hand 2 im 4 betting pre after bb calls so much dead money in the pot and we have good fold equity and we are never getting it in bad if we get called... Hand 1 is a check and getting ready to barrel of on most turns and rivers if villian checks turn.
UserAbuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 10:15 AM   #7
AnFearDearg
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 49
Re: 2PLO & 10PLO - Two critical flop decisions

Thanks for going into such detail Wazz
AnFearDearg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 10:20 AM   #8
AnFearDearg
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 49
Re: 2PLO & 10PLO - Two critical flop decisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserAbuser View Post
Hand 2 im 4 betting pre after bb calls so much dead money in the pot and we have good fold equity and we are never getting it in bad if we get called... Hand 1 is a check and getting ready to barrel of on most turns and rivers if villian checks turn.
I did briefly consider 4 betting, but thought calling and seeing a flop in position was the better strategy here.

Yes, i'm starting to understand why hand 1 is a check now (at last)

Thanks for replying
AnFearDearg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 03:06 PM   #9
wazz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
wazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: drinking in a saloon
Posts: 13,251
Re: 2PLO & 10PLO - Two critical flop decisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserAbuser View Post
Hand 2 im 4 betting pre after bb calls so much dead money in the pot and we have good fold equity and we are never getting it in bad if we get called...
It's not dead money until he folds, and cold-calling a 3b indicates he's not likely to fold to a 3b. More importantly, we're burning money 4betting someone who's 3betting from the SB. All we're doing is playing a big pot where we could play a small pot and use our position and playability to semibluff and rep dangerous flops and get full value etc etc.
wazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2020, 01:18 AM   #10
monikrazy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
monikrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 25,996
Re: 2PLO & 10PLO - Two critical flop decisions

While hand 1 is more of a standard xback vs strong opponents, i would certainly consider trying to blast off weaker ones. So if you do bet, larger is likely much better.

Also because we will have a lot more weird turn spots against them, and will sometimes prefer stacking off on flop with a clearer expectation of equity.

Last edited by monikrazy; 08-08-2020 at 01:43 AM.
monikrazy is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online