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2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish 2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish

08-18-2018 , 10:04 AM
Villain is huge fish, around 90/30. His check after fold is however around 65% and check-raise is low.

I was wondering shall I bet again at turn or just check behind. I decided to bet, because I felt that my hand still need a lot of protection against hands that villain still possibly had.

Pot-Limit Omaha, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Converted at http://www.handhistoryconverter.com

SB ($116.43)
BB ($25)
UTG ($25)
Hero (MP) ($29.60)
Button ($24.76)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 10, 2, 10, A
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.85, 1 fold, SB calls $0.75, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.95) 8, 6, 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.50, SB calls $1.50

Turn: ($4.95) K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.50
2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish Quote
08-18-2018 , 11:26 AM
I think floppity is a checkity

Your turn bet protects against nothing btw. You don't even have a hand to protect
2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish Quote
08-18-2018 , 01:03 PM
I am fully aware that I cbet and barrel too much for balanced play. But I do it mostly again players who I suspect don't adjust to it enough by checkraising enough.

At flop I didn't want to hands which have overcards free chance to outdraw me.
At turn I suspect that opponent most likely don't have two pairs hand given the gameplay. King might have helped but if it didn't, then we have some equity but also villain has some equity for outdrawing us. He might have overcards, one pair, gutshots or weak flushdraws. Of course he might also have hands which already beat us.

For valuebet it is weak but it works for protection for hands which might outdraw us. And sometimes villains pay off.

But of course this liberal 2-barreling makes me very very vulnerable for check-raise attack. Just to give you a bit of my thinking process during this line. It might still be very unoptimal as I am still learning how to play Omaha.

In NL Texas it works well to be aggressive to get many better made hands to fold and still charge draws which are weaker. In PLO I don't know.
2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish Quote
08-18-2018 , 02:07 PM
Yea the problem with the turn bet is that everything that has odds to call will simply call and everything that doesn't will just fold. Like, since equities run the way they do in PLO (close to eachother) bets like this just are sort of pointless, you bloat the pot for no real reason. You literally just don't make money with the bet. Unless he sighs and folds 89T with hearts I guess??

Like, in hold'em if you have a higher pair than the other guy or he's drawing he has like 10 or 20% so middle sized bets on a board like this make sense to extract value or not give the other guy a free river. In PLO the guy is simply going to have 40% equity and just call and none of you made any more money off of it. Or he has a random king here and you're the one with 10% equity I mean you're either slightly ahead here, or way behind, not a good spot to put in monies on average I'd say

In PLO, bloat the pot when you have a strong hand or when you actually can push someone off their equity..

Betting for protection in PLO is like, potting the turn with top set when the other guy has the nfd and a gutter - he has 25% equity but needs 33%
2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish Quote
08-19-2018 , 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SadAddict
In NL Texas it works well to be aggressive to get many better made hands to fold and still charge draws which are weaker. In PLO I don't know.
We have no problem with aggression but you have to have a plan and understand ranges. You are basically representing Ahxhxx or now KKxx or AhKxXhX.

What range do you assign the Villain when he calls the flop?
2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish Quote
08-19-2018 , 09:11 AM
Villain is VPIP 90% and folds to cbet around 40%.
So he still has around 50% of all possible combinations. I think that this particular flop is easy to keep going.

I assume that villain called with any pairs, any overpairs, any gutshot or flushdraws. It seems to me very difficult to break so wide ranges into pieces.

In quick situations I just cannot break his range into following seqments correct
  • Two pair hands
  • K-hands
  • Flush draws
  • Strong straight draws
  • Weak straight draws
  • Weak one pair hands

Given how weak the villains range still is, I think that I definitely need to cbet wider than Ahxhxx or now KKxx or AhKxXhX.

But of course not necessarily even so wide that my ATT 2nd barrel would be correct.

Last edited by SadAddict; 08-19-2018 at 09:18 AM.
2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish Quote
08-19-2018 , 05:08 PM
I actually don’t mind the bet/bet line, but only against truly terrible loose/passive fish. Vs that type of player his flop range is any pair, any gunshot, any flush draw, which is a ****-ton of hands when you’re defending about any 4 cards. So there’s plenty to protect against, and checking turn and then facing a river bet puts you in an annoying spot.

Vs anyone good or even just slightly terrible you’re running into overpairs too often and a turn bet is very bad and nonsensical. It might even be the exact worst hand to bet.
2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish Quote
08-19-2018 , 10:21 PM
Flop cbet is fine but I would go smaller, and much prefer turn check

The biggest issue with barreling the turn is that this is not the type of player we want to be triplebarrel bluffing, especially without blockers

Pot control on turn when our tt can win and we will often get a cheap showdown is fine
2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish Quote
08-28-2018 , 08:29 PM
You have SDV against a big fish. So why bet the flop?
2nd barrel turn or play slow, IP vs fish Quote

      
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