Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB 0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB

07-19-2018 , 05:32 AM
This forum is tagged as small stakes, I hope it's also ok to post micro stakes hands. If not, then let me know, thank you.


    Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37935096

    BTN: $12.10 (242 bb)
    Hero (SB): $8.80 (176 bb)
    BB: $5.27 (105.4 bb)
    UTG: $5 (100 bb)
    MP: $4.93 (98.6 bb)
    CO: $7.20 (144 bb)
    CO rather passive
    BB loose passive

    Preflop: Hero is SB with J A A 2
    2 folds, CO raises to $0.10, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.35, BB calls $0.30, CO calls $0.25
    The 2 hurts my hand, still think 3bet against minraise is best. Want to discourage the BB and also play a bigger pot.

    Flop: ($1.05) Q 6 9 (3 players)
    Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks
    Flop isn't good for my hand, but ok for my range. I'm not cbetting, because it's 3way and I think this board hits the CO often aswell. Mistake?

    Turn: ($1.05) 9 (3 players)
    Hero bets $0.80, BB folds, CO raises to $2, Hero folds
    I bet for value from the numerous draws on the board.
    CO raises, I decide to fold, because
    + the way he plays, I don't think, he's (semi)bluffing all that often
    + he can easily have a 9 or a boat
    + even, if he raises me with a draw, I'm often not far ahead.
    How does one usually play this turn?

    Spoiler:
    Results: $2.65 pot ($0.10 rake)
    Final Board: Q 6 9 9
    Hero mucked J A A 2 and lost (-$1.15 net)
    BB mucked and lost (-$0.35 net)
    CO mucked and won $2.55 ($1.40 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote
    07-19-2018 , 12:30 PM
    OOP vs 2 I think its a checkfold turn, if betting I can see some reasons for betting a small size maybe but I think its fine. If you get called how would you play river?

    As played I would just fold this.
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote
    07-19-2018 , 01:58 PM
    C/f turn or as said above, bet smaller, like 1/3 pot, though it makes the river a very weird experience . You re not really going to get exploited at these stakes.
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote
    07-19-2018 , 02:28 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by try_hardr_fish
    If you get called how would you play river?
    Yeah. So c/f dry Aces on a wet board 3way pretty much always, because it's too hard to realize the equity oop?

    In this special case, I would check/decide, depending on CO's sizing. In ~80 hands, I only saw him betting superstrong hands and bluffs on the river, with a 75%/pot tell, too.
    As for the BB, well he chases everything and never (?) bluffs. It was actually him that I targetted with my bet.
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote
    07-19-2018 , 04:19 PM
    Standard until turn.I see your reasoning for protection bet,but it is very unlikely to get 2 folds on this draw heavy board.Regarding CO play:He is actually bluffing here very often.He can have very few boats.Is he checking sets and top 2 on this board after 2 players checked to him?Other 2 points are ok,he can have a 9 easily,and even if he`s bluffing with a draw you re not that far ahead so prefer folding as played cause bluffcatching would be really difficult on many runouts.
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote
    07-19-2018 , 05:10 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Purasevic
    .Regarding CO play:He is actually bluffing here very often.He can have very few boats.Is he checking sets and top 2 on this board after 2 players checked to him?
    Very good question. He might just have changes his style, because it was a 3bet pot and people like to fight over those more. I don't know.
    From my little experience: On the rare occasion, somebody 3bets, they usually cbet potsized on any flop. My check might have been confusing.

    I can see him check behind top two, but sets? Surely he was aware, how much BB likes to call. You are right, I didn't think that one through. Thanks.
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote
    07-27-2018 , 10:29 PM
    Was this on bovada what was the hand ?
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote
    07-28-2018 , 03:04 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Caterina
    Yeah. So c/f dry Aces on a wet board 3way pretty much always, because it's too hard to realize the equity oop?

    In this special case, I would check/decide, depending on CO's sizing. In ~80 hands, I only saw him betting superstrong hands and bluffs on the river, with a 75%/pot tell, too.
    As for the BB, well he chases everything and never (?) bluffs. It was actually him that I targetted with my bet.
    like other said, c/f. i mean, it's a not a gigantic pot since flop wasn't bet, and that should be one of the most important things to consider here.

    the turn is awful for your hand and mostly improves everyone else's ranges in a 3-way pot. and when you bet you're only being called (or raised) by something that is doing fine against your hand, or may already be better.

    and suppose you're just called, there are a ton of rivers you need to make a tough decision on, and that's something that's pretty difficult in this spot.
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote
    07-28-2018 , 05:48 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kisada
    the turn is awful for your hand and mostly improves everyone else's ranges in a 3-way pot. and when you bet you're only being called (or raised) by something that is doing fine against your hand, or may already be better.
    Thanks, appreciate the feedback. Here I was thinking, the turn improved my hand, but the real question is: How much did it improve my opponents hands.

    I was aware about the tricky river, but thought, these guys are not going to make my life difficult.

    If I had hearts instead of spades, how should I play the turn?
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote
    07-31-2018 , 09:36 AM
    As played, I'm happy with the turn fold.

    I'm really hungry for more information on our opponents here, though. You say they're passive, but are they also loose? Steal% would also be valuable for ranging CO, though their min-open suggests they aren't super thoughtful as a player about something like position.

    How many hands they're seeing flops with makes a big difference for me here, as well as how sticky they are postflop.

    To that point, I'm wondering why we aren't betting the flop here. Not so much for value (I think we do have the best hand often, though there are tons of turns and rivers we don't like), but if we can thin the field by one or ideally two opponents, I think it's worth it. I think that, absent more information, bet/fold on the flop is reasonable, and it stays very reasonable if you're raised by a player who has shown very little aggression.

    And if we get called (rather than raised), I think we can have some realistic guesses what would be a pretty capped range. This flop offers too many draws for a set to play slow, so I think you're looking at a calling range (for either player) of stuff like AdXd (maybe worse dd hands), JT (though you have a jack yourself), 78 maybe, Q9 probably. You might get some top pair calls here, too (again, more info on these players' stickiness would help a lot).

    Let's say we get one caller:
    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    600,000 trials (Randomized)
    board: 6Q9
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    As2sAcJh40.38% 241,1832,189
    dd, JT, Q, Q9, 7859.62% 356,6282,189

    We're not ahead but we're not dead either. How does the turn change things?

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    3,049,520 trials (Exhaustive)
    board: 6Q99
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    As2sAcJh61.42% 1,866,51012,739
    dd, JT, Q, Q9, 7838.58% 1,170,27112,739

    Pretty significant equity shift in our favor. At this point, if you bet, you probably get some dd/JT/78 folds and probably a lot of top pair folds too. You don't hate calls, though (being ahead of their range) and a raise is an easy fold.

    At this point we may have put in two bets with the worst of it, but I think automatically forfeiting this flop is kind of weak (though I may be too spewy in these spots).

    But, as played, you put yourself in a tough spot, no? Otherwise you wouldn't have posted the hand. With the above line—bet(/fold), bet(/fold)—the plays are much clearer.

    Now, I won't deny that the river would get very tricky OOP almost regardless of card, but—again—with more information on your opponent(s) we can feel more confident about how likely we could be to get to showdown for no more bets... how likely villains would be to bluff a busted diamond or straight draw... etc.

    For your hypothetical:
    If we have AhJh, I don't think I'm leading the turn. By betting the card that pairs the board, your hand is overrepped, so you're getting some folds but only getting action from hands that you're in serious trouble against. And if you're just trying to get folds, you could/should have done so on the flop, no?

    If you're not trying to get folds on the turn, I don't think there's any reason not to give a free card. If you make your flush on the river, you won't get a ton of value from betting anyway, so I would be inclined to just keep the pot small and not put myself in a position to get blasted off of my hand in an inflated pot.
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote
    07-31-2018 , 03:47 PM
    Thank you for detailed answer.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DevWil
    I'm really hungry for more information on our opponents here, though. You say they're passive, but are they also loose? Steal% would also be valuable for ranging CO, though their min-open suggests they aren't super thoughtful as a player about something like position.
    I can't recall the exact stats, but I remember
    * BB seemed to be a somewhat atypical calling station. His preflop stats should look something like 60/10/0. He would call flop almost always, turn not so much and river rarely, which gave me the impression, that he was chasing weak draws and backdoor draws. Whenver he put in a bet without raising pre, he had the nuts. He also lost a BI by overplaying Aces.

    * CO I would peg as nitty in general. I think his preflop stats were something like 20/18/0 and he minraised fairly strong hands from all positions other than UTG. I think, he was stealing too little.
    I think, he had a general idea about the game and was not just playing fit/fold, rather, I'd say he was cautiously and tried to stay away from high variance spots. I don't know, if he was trying to trap or simply not aware of his handstrength postflop, but I saw him missing out on a lot of value by checking/not raising. Better players might come to a different judgement though.

    Quote:
    To that point, I'm wondering why we aren't betting the flop here. Not so much for value (I think we do have the best hand often, though there are tons of turns and rivers we don't like), but if we can thin the field by one or ideally two opponents, I think it's worth it. I think that, absent more information, bet/fold on the flop is reasonable, and it stays very reasonable if you're raised by a player who has shown very little aggression.
    Well, I thought CO has a range advantage on this board and BB calls anyway. I also thought, CO is often going to flat hands here, that should probably be raised. I would snapfold facing a raise from either player on the flop though.


    Quote:
    But, as played, you put yourself in a tough spot, no? Otherwise you wouldn't have posted the hand. With the above line—bet(/fold), bet(/fold)—the plays are much clearer.
    It makes sense, especially, if I use a small size. I want to bet big with hands that smash this board, but I don't think BB pays any attention at all and CO might notice the difference, but I don't see him adjusting to it.


    Quote:
    For your hypothetical:
    If we have AhJh, I don't think I'm leading the turn. By betting the card that pairs the board, your hand is overrepped, so you're getting some folds but only getting action from hands that you're in serious trouble against. And if you're just trying to get folds, you could/should have done so on the flop, no?

    If you're not trying to get folds on the turn, I don't think there's any reason not to give a free card. If you make your flush on the river, you won't get a ton of value from betting anyway, so I would be inclined to just keep the pot small and not put myself in a position to get blasted off of my hand in an inflated pot.
    Makes sense, too.
    0.02/0.05 PLO Linecheck AA in the SB Quote

          
    m