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Wide 3-bet Wide 3-bet

05-03-2021 , 02:05 AM
This may be a rather basic question for some of you but it's something that I'm curious about.

So, we can pretty much be certain that a player with a 2 or 3% 3-bet range is only 3 betting AA hands but what about someone with a 3-bet range of 11%?

Which hands would be comprised of an 11% 3-bet range? My thoughts would be that it would include all AA, KK, all broadway combinations, A789 and possibly most QQxx and JJxx?

What would be the best strategy against a player like this? Tighten up more? 4-bet lighter or wider?
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05-03-2021 , 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anon1

Which hands would be comprised of an 11% 3-bet range? My thoughts would be that it would include all AA, KK, all broadway combinations, A789 and possibly most QQxx and JJxx?
If you are asking what the solver approved 3bet range looks like, somebody else will help. If it's about actual players actual ranges

I don't think we can or should assign a range that this defined, just from looking at V. 3bet. Especially "all combos" is usually misleading. All broadways combos for example is way too much.
Some things that go through my head, when I see higher than average 3bet stat on my HUD:

- What does V.s 3bet look like by position. For example, he could have 15% 3bet OTB, but only 3% as the SB.
- Does V. pay attention to WHOM he is 3betting? Does he ever fold to a 4bet?
- What hands does he show down? Is it a more linear value orientated range with hands like ABBBds? Does it have unexpected "bluffs" like 4477ds in it? Or does V. overplay pretty looking junk like 45QJds?

Quote:
What would be the best strategy against a player like this? Tighten up more? 4-bet lighter or wider?
The best strategy against any player is GTO? You do your thing and don't care what V. does. you are protected against over3betting

I'm a huge nit in earlier positions. If somebody 3bets me light in position (for example on the BTN), I start 4betting more. I would also open a bit less in late positions, for example the CO. A better balanced player might also fold a bit more pre.
Honorary mention: Looking for a better seat/table, if very deep stacked and/or 3bettor just owns me.

Last edited by Caterina; 05-03-2021 at 07:44 AM.
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05-03-2021 , 08:26 AM
Quote:
So, we can pretty much be certain that a player with a 2 or 3% 3-bet range is only 3 betting AA hands
Or they are only three betting AA some of the time, and there betting other hands the rest of the time.


Quote:
Which hands would be comprised of an 11% 3-bet range?
There are multiple answers to this question, but perfect rundowns, especially double suited, are one category you did not include JT98 ds for example. These hands are foundational to even a "tight" three betting range say 5 or 6%. Also you should include KKA as it's own category, when thinking about 3 betting ranges, since it is dramatically different from KK alone.

Also just having an ace in general is very important for three betting, although I suppose it's possible your opponents don't know that.




A GTO three betting range of say SB vs BU places a lot of emphasis on double suited hands and hands with an ace.
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05-03-2021 , 01:01 PM
I hate to be obvious, but 11% 3bet only means they 3bet 11%, it doesn't say what hands they choose. That's why you should take notes.
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05-03-2021 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anon1
My thoughts would be that it would include all AA, KK, all broadway combinations, A789 and possibly most QQxx and JJxx?
A very important concept you are missing is having Ace blocker. T987ds is better 3 bet than KK** since a lot of KK** have to fold to 4-bet. Once you understand that you can start thinking about how to combat a wide 3-bet range. Widening your 4-betting range is one way to do that. One quick tip is 4 betting hands with Ace blocker and unblocking Kings(example: some AQQ, AJJ, AJT8ds)
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05-09-2021 , 02:33 AM
Thank you all for taking the time to reply. It really is helpful to me.
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05-09-2021 , 04:03 AM
I had a hand that I'm still upset and frustrated with myself over.

Villain has a VPIP of 66 and 11% 3-bet.

UTG and MP limp, BU villain raises and I 3-bet out of the SB with KdKs5hQh. Yeah, I know that they're not great kings but to a villain with stats that wide, I figure that an iso 3 bet is the right move. UTG and MP fold. As a side note, had either UTG or MP 4-betted, I would have folded.

So, HU with the BU and the flop is Ad4d7s. I hesitate, because I'm thinking about which hands would the villain call a 3-bet with and that if he's calling the 3-bet, surely he must have an ace. I check and the villain bets 1/2 pot. Now, I'm not quite sure what to think. Is the 1/2 pot bet to goad me into potting, so he can stack me? I call. If the villain had checked behind me on the flop, I would have potted the turn and planned to do so - UNTIL the Ac hits on the turn.

At this point, I realize that with a second ace popping up on the turn makes it less likely that he has an ace, although he could have had a weak ace and now realizes that he's very likely ahead. I would have folded to a 1/2 pot or pot sized bet at this point but I also wonder if he might have QQ or JJ. If he has QQ or JJ, I probably want to go to the river with him. Call it fear or uncertainty, I check and villain checks behind me.

The river is the 6 of diamonds.

At this point, I'm pretty certain that I'm good and decide to make a small bet on the river. I can fold to a check raise or if he has worse - QQ or JJ, I get paid off. Well, villain thinks for a while and makes the call. When I saw what he had, I was just stunned. I'm sure that all I had to do on the flop or turn was to make a strong bet and I'd have taken it down.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

I would be lying if I said that I didn't tilt a bit after this but luckily, kept my head enough to realize that I was doing so and logged off before it got bad.


PokerStars, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.15/$0.30 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $31.34 (104 bb)
MP: $29.05 (97 bb)
CO: $55.11 (184 bb)
BU: $33.72 (112 bb)
SB (Hero): $36.18 (121 bb)
BB: $11.95 (40 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.45) Hero is SB with K K 5 Q
UTG calls $0.30, MP calls $0.30, 1 fold, BTN raises to $1.65, Hero 3-bets to $5.85, 3 players fold, BTN calls $4.20

Flop: ($12.60) 4 A 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.98, Hero calls $5.98

Turn: ($24.56) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($24.56) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $7.70, BTN calls $7.70

Total pot: $39.96 (Rake: $2)

Showdown:
SB (Hero) shows K K 5 Q (two pair, Aces and Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 60%, Flop: 23%, Turn: 70%, River: 0%)

BU shows 5 4 7 3 (a straight, Three to Seven)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 40%, Flop: 77%, Turn: 30%, River: 100%)

BU wins $37.96

Last edited by anon1; 05-09-2021 at 04:16 AM.
Wide 3-bet Quote
05-09-2021 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anon1
I had a hand that I'm still upset and frustrated with myself over.

Villain has a VPIP of 66 and 11% 3-bet.

UTG and MP limp, BU villain raises and I 3-bet out of the SB with KdKs5hQh. Yeah, I know that they're not great kings but to a villain with stats that wide, I figure that an iso 3 bet is the right move. UTG and MP fold. As a side note, had either UTG or MP 4-betted, I would have folded.

So, HU with the BU and the flop is Ad4d7s. I hesitate, because I'm thinking about which hands would the villain call a 3-bet with and that if he's calling the 3-bet, surely he must have an ace. I check and the villain bets 1/2 pot. Now, I'm not quite sure what to think. Is the 1/2 pot bet to goad me into potting, so he can stack me? I call. If the villain had checked behind me on the flop, I would have potted the turn and planned to do so - UNTIL the Ac hits on the turn.

At this point, I realize that with a second ace popping up on the turn makes it less likely that he has an ace, although he could have had a weak ace and now realizes that he's very likely ahead. I would have folded to a 1/2 pot or pot sized bet at this point but I also wonder if he might have QQ or JJ. If he has QQ or JJ, I probably want to go to the river with him. Call it fear or uncertainty, I check and villain checks behind me.

The river is the 6 of diamonds.

At this point, I'm pretty certain that I'm good and decide to make a small bet on the river. I can fold to a check raise or if he has worse - QQ or JJ, I get paid off. Well, villain thinks for a while and makes the call. When I saw what he had, I was just stunned. I'm sure that all I had to do on the flop or turn was to make a strong bet and I'd have taken it down.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

I would be lying if I said that I didn't tilt a bit after this but luckily, kept my head enough to realize that I was doing so and logged off before it got bad.


PokerStars, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.15/$0.30 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $31.34 (104 bb)
MP: $29.05 (97 bb)
CO: $55.11 (184 bb)
BU: $33.72 (112 bb)
SB (Hero): $36.18 (121 bb)
BB: $11.95 (40 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.45) Hero is SB with K K 5 Q
UTG calls $0.30, MP calls $0.30, 1 fold, BTN raises to $1.65, Hero 3-bets to $5.85, 3 players fold, BTN calls $4.20

Flop: ($12.60) 4 A 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.98, Hero calls $5.98

Turn: ($24.56) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($24.56) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $7.70, BTN calls $7.70

Total pot: $39.96 (Rake: $2)

Showdown:
SB (Hero) shows K K 5 Q (two pair, Aces and Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 60%, Flop: 23%, Turn: 70%, River: 0%)

BU shows 5 4 7 3 (a straight, Three to Seven)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 40%, Flop: 77%, Turn: 30%, River: 100%)

BU wins $37.96
You pretty much always want to rep AA when you 3bet out of the blinds and an A flops. Bet flop and bet turn especially when board pairs. It is almost impossible for him to have AA when he doesnt 4 bet pre. Even if he does have an A sometimes he is crushed by your range and cant stand a lot of pressure.
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