I'm kind of in process of trying to master the fundamentals of ABC play but what after the extreme abc fundamentals skill wise not like working out eating healthy should we look to master in plo. To get to like 5/10 live Thanks

What are you considering to be the fundamentals of "ABC" play?

I suspect what I am working on, and consider the fundamentals, are perhaps much different than what you are considering.

In one course the instructor makes a comment about:

1. get your preflop right
2. get the flop mostly right
3. we are in the streets here and playing poker, but our ranges are mostly correct

I like that and in that framework I view my preflop ranges and flop play as the fundamentals.

^^^ TRUTH

Hand reading. Try and guess what they have, see how often you are right.

Yes Mark I agree..

Hand reading I feel like that's Def. Something but how do you study for that like I feel as if great fundamentals helps the grey area with hand reading is it something serperate like if you study ranges and everything some spots are easier to see people bluffing in but personally I feel like hand reading deals with putting the emphasis on "YOURSELF" and THAN once you have sort of a grip on how your being perceived than you can see that ok I'm feeling this because I'm in touch with social awareness and your hand reading gets there but I feel it's such a separate type of thing to mastering the fundamentals to high degree with plo.. makes me think playing more nl should prob. Help in hand reading with plo just from basic nature of it compared to plo.

No, don't play NL if you want to learn PLO. Just play the game you want to master and climb up in stakes over time. You mentioned trying to get up to 5/10 live. The live stakes path is 1/2 (1/3), 2/5 and then 5/10. There are only three steps. And some of the smallest games might have protections built in so that the games don't get out of control or play bigger than they should. The Las Vegas Aria PLO 1/2 (1/3) game a long time ago to protect the lowest stakes PLO game from getting out of control and playing bigger did not allow straddles and it also only allowed a 100bb max buy-in. I don't know if any of those rules there or anywhere else are still in effect, but that would help getting started.

Well just simply that wasn't my question... I appreciate your response and agree but to get better at hand reading like the other person posted it just makes sense to play nl as there's more hand reading involved due to being a 2 card game.

Wrong. Give people 4 cards and they can make more hands. More hands equals more hands to read. In PLO a player could have flopped a set AND a straight. Combination hands/draws are the core of PLO. You can't flop that in a 2 card game. You just exposed why you in particular will fail. You don't listen and you draw horrible conclusions, you've been told this before by other posters. The harsh truth is you might want to stop asking about what to do after the fundamentals, you don't even understand the fundamentals of a 4 card game.

Agree .. WAY MORE hand reading in PLO. Players have 6 NL holdings to choose from in PLO and that 'simple' statement lends itself as marker for hand reading.

Do you realize how rare 5/10 PLO is in the world? Where do you plan on playing? In most areas this level is either at a home game or has limited inconsistent sessions outside of a very few major poker markets. I'm not an online guy, so if 5/10 is available online, then that's GREAT! But I can only imagine the skill level required for online play at that stake.

Why is 5/10 the goal? IMO I've yet to find a 1/2-5 table that didn't lend itself to some pretty good profit spots while offering much more opportunity to play a session.

Back to your question .. PLO is all about Position and Stack Sizes. You use both in an attempt to control the narrative of each hand. Any bet OOP is subject to a raise. Any bet period may trap you into playing for stacks in marginal equity spots.

In my games you have to be willing to fold some hands that you would never consider folding in NL. There are spots where it makes some sense to fold even when you hold the current nuts.

I want to say that for the 3 items listed above that you need to first establish the right range for each Position and Street and then establish the 'right' plays for those ranges as the action and the Board is presented to you.

You also need to be able to range and image each V as well. Some V with wide range and a stubborn image can NEVER be bluffed. They will call you down with 'any' relative 5-card hand on the River .. straight, flush or FH. So even with the Ace of Flush blocker, you can't use it against them the way you might against a different Player with the same stack and position.

Most posters here want you to achieve your goals .. but I've been around the block here a couple of times and I just want to put it out there that you are probably on a much longer road than you may want to be for your stated goal. Can you get there? I'm certainly NOT going to say no, but I will say you're looking at more of a mountain path than the Autobahn. GL

I wasn't hating wolf I mean maybe a lil but I was just being honest with the main question seemed like you brought the thread off from my question so that why I felt a lil angry in my question but mainly it was to see what to do... so my bad I guess.

Nl has more bluffs which means more hand reading to me... could be wrong but isn't that obvious? I know when I play nl that's why I said it I bring some of the approach to plo than just playing plo 95 percent of time like if I play plo70 percent to nl 30 percent I think that would help when it comes to hand teading..

Anyway interested to see what anybody else thinks if not thanks for responses if I come across a certain way it's just cuz I'm having trouble sticking to micros to build a roll when I feel I could be making more at higher stakes plo so sorry if cranky. I'm depositing 600 tomorrow for plo20 starting a blog and goals

I want to get to 125 aria by next year answer and 55 a year after I seen 1010 at Hollywood and got real excited but way years away.. the person I spoke to said it ran regularly there it was first I seen it on bravo and don't look at the room slash excited to see so called but gotta check. I don't have a gf right now or much family so thinking geared towards that way but could change.

Idk answer I feel like I love the game enough and play for right reasons plus not really any family or a gf so you know is what it is thinking skewed towards self progress right now than maybe getting a gf once I achieve my goals.. I just got my sis and my old friends don't play cards... plus mainly bored and no roll except for micros so it's forced me to think long term and like you said I love the mountain I LOVE it i embrace it cause I figure if I'm good enough now to be a good player that'd be great for 125 aria but some life stuff made me see that the 55 max 2k there is achievable if I plan better cuz life stuff slowed me down so I figure at 38 the goal should be the 1010 at hollywood ... normally I'd be fine with the 125 game but like said been through some stuff that forced me to slow down so thinking more towards being patient and planning now ��

game selection.

This is my candidate for post of the year.

As we come to the end of the year and before I get too busy with the holidays, I thought I would bump what I think is the most important way to get better at PLO. Get the damn standard preflop ranges correct. And resist the urge to constantly come up with excuses to deviate from those standard preflop ranges. Over the last year I have seen a crap ton of posts where people give their excuses for deviating from the standard preflop ranges. But the problem is their deviation was usually wrong in some way. Okay, one of your opponents is playing to wide so you are now going to widen your range, but you widen your range with the wrong mother ****ing hands. Your were better off sticking to the standard preflop ranges. Your deviations will be wrong because you picked a dog **** hand to widen with or because even if it seemed like a reasonable hand to widen with it still doesn't overcome the horrible rake. You were better off sticking to the standard preflop ranges. My sympathy level is evaporating. There should be a sticky in the PLO section that reads, "you are almost guaranteed to **** it up if you deviate from standard preflop strategy." That is enough about preflop. On the flop try to get it mostly right. And this starts by having some standard betting sizes. Wow, who knew that how to play this game well is to standardize stuff. Pick some bet size ranges. I don't care what they are, but some popular standard sizes that will make your life easier and are well spread apart would be 1/3 pot, 2/3 pot and pot. And again resisted the god damn urge to deviate. My sympathy level is evaporating for anyone that comes up with some standard bet sizes and then constantly comes up with excuses to deviate from them. And then after the flop we are in the streets playing poker. Pick up a stick. Pick up a rock. Fight like hell.

Good luck. Happy Holidays.

^ lold, very relatable. We need the sticky.

Somehow these people end up iso raising 6643r from ****ing MP because a whale limped EP and you just have to play isolated pots vs these guys.

And when you try to explain why it doesn’t work that way they don’t take the advice from someone who has actually made lots of money at poker because clearly you don’t understand how these softer live games work.