most of his hand range is AT, AA, KK/QQ+FD. Very very few hands are gonna fold that you will ever give you another bet anyway and u dont wanna miss river bets vs the NF that you could have possibly gotten.

Yer that makes sense. I was under the impression that he would be pretty weak as his range was massive cause it was bvb. Checking turn gives him a chance to spew on the river. I was prob trying to be a little bit to tricky so your right but w/e I was going broke anyways

alright ive been prison raped into submission for today

Fu RUSH POKER. I play super tight I cant win. I play super aggro 40 vpip 35pfr 30% 3bet I cant win. FUUUUUUUUUUUuu

Yeh, been running like **** in rush. Up 13bi and ended up dropping it all back. I'm quitting rush for a bit. Two pair vs overpair, sets vs undersets, set vs fd, even set vs. pair.

Got it in for 200bb with a set of 8 to have the board go runner, runner straight.

Going back to stars where the games are much, much softer

Just started playing some 6-max (been playing HU before). Today I ran into one straight flush and two quads (I had the 2nd nuts in all). Is this common in 6-max?

Fwiw it's not like the river goes raise raise raise raise, the stacks has been shallow enough for me to see it as a ship situation.

no its not. it happensbut its not that common at all.

Kimdoo, is stars 100plo actually softer than vroom?

Yep, I'm going back to STARS after I get all my rb. Only have around 800 left in my ft account. I played short tables though at STARS and they were crazy soft.

Stars has a lot bigger player pool, so more fish trying plo to make up their losses.

Vroom is sorta nitty imo. I don't see people stacking off as light

There are so many different opinions regarding the two sites. How long have you been playing vroom kim? I considered euro sites though I dont think I can put up with the hassles.

Probably around 100k 50plo rush and 50k vroom.

Stars is way looser imo... bigger player people = more fish. However, that means more regs to, but it is easier to game select because most of the regs are grinding for sne. I can't speak for 3/6 plus though... but definitely there are more people taking shots/trying out plo and they are quite obvious to spot.

I think vroom in general is way too of a nit fest. I've probably won less than 10bi w/ people stacking off horrible. Maybe I just run bad though... plus it seems like during peak hours that most of the fishies are buying in super shallow. I've found that I'm making a lot less moves, too unless I have blockers or think that nit is a good spot.. reads to me are a lot less important, and also bluffing doesn't have as much value. I mean that by most of the fish are only temporarily there... unlike ring games where they are constantly sitting down and giving a shot with the last of their br because plo has more gambol than nl. So if you call down weak or make a bluff, there isn't as much value because they won't recognize that you are constantly opening/bluffing at pots. Xonversely, I don't get those reads either and I know some of the regs play way higher than 100plo.

Carbon is even looser than stars. Lol, never been in a 3/6 game where everyone limp calls. Played yesterday vs. 3 fishy players. Even the regs were not that decent. But yeah, got back my losses pretty easily and won 1.2k. I was making a ton of moves and started to get no credit. And I could make reads vs. Fish too that would be in general -ev in vroom. There was this dude who I won 200bb/100bb off of pretty marginally. Basically he was potting everything/calling down with 2nd or 3rd nut draws/hands. For ex. Flop came 1097 he called off 86 with no redraws when I had j8 with the nfd. in a single raised pot. Then, I shoved ott with 756k with a fd on a k754 board, once again villian raised/stacked off with 46/no fd.

Anyways hope this makes sense, it early and barely got no sleep. But this happens a ton more on stars, even though I ws talking about carbon. Any q ill be back later to clarify what I meant if thefre is any confusiong

I've been back and forward between Stars 100PLO and Vroom. No doubt stars is softer because of the fish playing 40-80 vpip and stacking off with 2nd-4th nuts and dominated draws.

I find that my hourly winrate is higher at Vroom though. I think this is due to:

- Hands per hour/easy of play (rather than 8-10 tabling stars, that can be a hassle)
- Vroom has fish too, just cause there tight, doesn't mean there good. Bad tight PLO players are easy to beat + less variance .
- Rakeback, I'm only Platinum at Stars.
-MADGREEK

When I move up to 1/2 2/4 I will probably go to stars, but atm I'm just grinding Vroom for a decent winrate and trying to build up a roll to play higher.

I would 4 table Stars over 1 tabling Vroom. But I would 2 table Vroom over 8+ tabling stars.

I don;t think either site is better... but I think it's highly dependant on your goals and style of play.

I haven't played on Stars for a long time now but I think this needs to be clarified if we intend on proceeding with this discussion;
Are the players that say Stars games are softer or have more '40-80 VPIP players' playing the 100+ or 50bb games? I know Kim made a reference to Stars that hinted at him playing the 50bb PLO100 games though Im not sure if that's what he plays exclusively.

I've played alot of Rush PLO last few days and I definately agree that the games are super nitty. But I disagree that this makes for less bluffing. I get away with so much in these games because people play so scared. It is still profitable but maybe there are games that are better elsewhere.

Good point. 50bb games are where you find the 40+vpip fish. the 100bb games are often full of regs, and just as nitty as Vroom. The ante games kinda have a mix and can be good, but are often built around one or two loose bad players.

I play both, but the higher you go, like 1/2 or 2/4 some really good regs play 100bb/deep. I game select, so yeah. Usually ill observe a bit before I sit in. You can easily spot the fish because they are playing too many hands or limping often. I won't sit with a table full of regs. I bet I'm less than break even vs. them. I'm just saying at v room you cannot do this. So I'm sorta suspect to you saying your wr is higher in vroom than at stars.

I just think I'm sorta addicted the format of vroom/rush plo. But I seriously need to start putting volume in at six max rng. I just think it is way more profitable. I can say that in general I find the games more aggro on ft. Go ahead and give it a shot.

Like said above, vroom may be nittier, but I feel like you win more repping the nuts than you do get paid when you hit the nuts. Idk if that makes sense. but I find it way easier to play vs people who I have a read on in plo. It let's me shove in more marginal spots. You get to know their tendencies and can play way more accordingly. Which is way more +ev than playing one hand, and ten hands later playing the same villian who may or may not enter the pot.

I didn't say it was less profitable, I just said it loses value. And I find you have to bluff a lot more and usually are not being put all in/ called marginally. When I say it loses value, I mean for advertisement reasons. Obv. If you triple barrel bluff and get called the whole table sees it and starts to call you down lighter, etc... just like 3betting a ton in rng puts you into spots that people will call you down when they flop an A o regardless of the board. I don't think I've ever 3bet pre, flopped an ace, and got it in on an axx board unless they have very decent equity. Like seriously, how often are people getting called down in a spot where you flop a straight or the nf? People might make a move, but rarely am I getting called with the 3rd flusb or 2nd nut straight

Question, what do you think good VPIP/PFR/3B should be at this game? My guess is that it should be noticably tighter than regular 6-max tables. Thoughts?

With that in mind, should W$SD and WtSD be higher and lower in VROOM than regular tables (respectively)?

ur positional stats should be more polarised, u should be able to steal more vs nits and 3bet without being overcalled a gazillion times when in late position.

i don't know if any of you were playing last night around 2-3 a.m (technically this morning) but there was a guy who was just clicking the pot button on pretty much every action! i don't know if i'm allowed to post his ftp name(this is my first post and im new to 2+2) but anyway...this guy just kept getting there against me! it was reallllllly sick but i stuck around and finally got it all back. just thought i'd share b/c of been grinding a LOT of vroom lately and i've never seen anyone play like that!

Just got beat Set over set KK vs AA against Joe Beevers, then this (I know I probably couldn't have played this hand worse) btw):

Full Tilt - $1 PL Hi RUSH (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $100.50
SB: $65.95
BB: $100.00
UTG: $388.40
MP: $158.75
CO: $85.50

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has A A T 7

UTG raises to $2.00, fold, fold, Hero calls $2.00, fold, fold

Flop: ($5.50, 2 players) 9 T A
UTG bets $5.00, Hero calls $5.00

Turn: ($15.50, 2 players) K
UTG checks, Hero bets $8.00, UTG raises to $39.50, Hero calls $31.50

River: ($94.50, 2 players) A
UTG bets $94.50, Hero calls $54.00 and is all-in

UTG shows K J Q K (Royal Flush) (PreFlop 32%, Flop 42%, Turn 90%)
Hero mucks A A T 7 (Four of a Kind, Aces) (PreFlop 68%, Flop 58%, Turn 10%)
UTG wins $199.50

You deserve that for playing the hand so bad

Yeah, I couldn't have made a worse decision on each street, except maybe if I folded pre.

Folding the river would have been an inifinitely worse decision, even though you ran into the royal

Hey guys !

Is there a big difference between Rush poker and regular tables ?

Yep rush poker is super nitty!