Another concept which is really simple which you don't seem to be getting is that he is supposedly at the top of the food chain already, yet feels he can make more money by selling hope to others they can get to where he is rather than playing himself.

What do you do when you get to where he is? Start a training course of your own?

Wonder what the actual size of the total player pool of all PLO games on the internet is on any given day....I'd be surprised if he has even 50 people signed up.

I'm afraid you have greatly underestimated the live PLO player pool and their purchasing power.

I must say I really hate the way over the top marketing. There is no holy grail poker course that will tranform you to crusher. Sure it may be good learning tool and provide valuable information but in the end you can learn same things by watching videos by other pros and thinking/working hard on your game. In the end you are the one who needs to figure out what is best and not follow blindly what somebody else tells you

True @DuumaPomm

Agree,.

Fernando is 30 yrs old, he doesn't want to be an online grinder all his life. He wants freedom and he understands it takes "FU" levels of money to do it.

Look mate, I don't wanna get into it with you where you just go off about random stuff to 'prove' your point and I don't want to repeat myself (too much).

You've clearly got some misunderstanding from somewhere, as to how much per hour a top tier online poker player is actually expected to earn. You're also very clearly, greatly underestimating how profitable selling courses actually is as a model when compared against playing poker for a living.

If you'd spent more time actually looking into the product offering than spending time on this forum bashing something you don't understand, you'd have realised there is a facebook group of which only paying members of the course are able to join. There you can satisfy your curiosity as to roughly the amount of courses they sell.

Can't be arsed to look. What's the number?

I srs dunno how you missed it again, but I am the one who brought up the fact that Fernando deems it MORE profitable to teach a course than actually play poker. How the **** am I underestimating it? If he can make 150k playing and more teaching, then I'm correctly estimating it aren't I?

He also believes it's more profitable to go over to month to month instead of a one-time course, otherwise he wouldn't do it that way would he?

I don't need to see the course material--i know a lot of it is ripped from Chambers anyway like every other PLO course. The deductive part of the logic that you're missing is---if a top tier player doesn't want to play anymore, how worthwhile can his course possibly be?

how do you know he deems it more profitable to sell courses than to play? we can only speculate how many he sold. and even if he sold numbers you'd consider good, it's not like he can sell them again and again. afaik, people who already bought the course will now have free access to the new stuff. and I would imagine the influx of new customers wouldn't be too big, it's been on for a time and those who had interest in it have probably bought it already.

he saw a chance to add to his income and can you blame him? at least he actually is playing and has recent results to back it up (I think I saw it on his upswing profile, not sure), unlike some others who have been selling books for 2.5 grand and they last played 5 years before releasing. also, price tag he set is up to him, he could have put it to 100k if he wanted, noone is forcing you to buy anything. he clearly went for a big price/lower number of customers.

just for the record I didn't buy it and never would pay that much for some poker content, in my country that's huge money for a recreational player to pay for a book. but I don't see why he should get flamed for it.

Because that's what he's focusing his time on?

It's month to month now, so you're constantly paying. Pretty sure it's $200 + $100/mo so basically $1400 for a year.

Sure. I hate that he's teaching noobs how to play. He's ruining the PLO economy for personal gain just like they did with NLHE. You can shear a sheep thousands of times, but skin him only once....poker training turned the sheep into wolves. Brilliant strategy...if you're the one capitalizing on it. No respect for anyone who did or does that.

And now he's going for a seemingly lower price (except it's bigger) because he feels he can make even more money that way.

See above for why he deserves beratement.

"Those that can't do, teach." Not saying it's not possible for someone to be a better teacher than player---and I can think of a few notable examples across various disciplines, but it's comparatively rare. People that excel in their field do not usually stop excelling in their field in order to teach others---it just doesn't make sense. The simplest explanation is that he's not as great a crusher as he seems, or he's getting out of playing poker for other reasons (games drying up, has a mental game problem, just went through a huge downswing, etc). All I'm saying is try and see through the hype and marketing and question some motivations before you buy into this.

lots of argument to read through so I am not sure if someone answered this already but..



In the recent AMA video on youtube Jnandez off handed mentioned that there are over 500 members in the PLO uni / Joeingram1 alone posted on instagram that 45 people used his affiliate link this week to buy it. That's over $500k usd plus starting a monthly $200 + $100 sub seems like pretty decent money.

I wonder what the cut is between Upswing (doug/ryanfee/matt) and Jnandez is (plus maybe joey with his promo code too taking cuts)

@MD46135

Just a clarification. People who bought PLOU do not have to pay the $200 entry fee, but still must pay $100/mo for the new content.

If you're point is 'if he can't make more money playing plo than teaching it he musn't be that good', thats just too dumb to be for real? I'm obviously missing something here.

He is playing and teaching at the same time, thus more profitable than just playing. How hard is it to understand?

all of us donkeys who buy it are gunna hop into his stakes and CRUSH him, he'll have to quit poker soon m8

Save your money and buy Siddhartha.

You don't get enlightenment by following the Master. You get it by going your own way.

Actually he got it by studying theory in depth. Now he's passing that knowledge on to you. I'd go to the source he got it from, but that's me.

Id guess 50/50, be very surprised if J gets more than that.. maybe 60%. He does all the work but its still dougs name that made a large chunk of those 500 people spend $1000 on a course

I d be willing to sell my PLO Lab account. If interested pls PM me ...
Reason is I have unexpected changes in my life and no time for playing the great game of PLO

I got the course and I have to say I am disappointed by it. It just teaches you to be a nit and post flop is pretty cut and dry on what to do. Its more for people new to plo that are getting into it from no limit holdem It is very detailed on the basics of PLO is I guess the best way to describe it. Play tight and play solid post flop and hero fold a ton to aggression.

Save your 700 dollars for da tables. Study your hands and grind and you will figure it out over time. You don't need to be a sub to some poker site. THere is plenty of free content on you tube. You can watch a lot of jnandez content on you tube for free. That stuff is better then what he has in his university imo. There is plenty of free phil galfond content too on you tube.

That is feedback from someone that has the course. if I rated his course from 1 to 10 I would give it 5. For someone brand new to PLO thats never played before I would give it a 9 though. It sets a nice foundation on transitioning from holdem to PLO in a hurry, for someone that has no clue.I got better by playing on the tables and actually just watching Jay play on you tube.

Jay is a straight up crusher. Stop the nonsense. He may not be at the very top of the food chain but he is getting pretty close. I think the reason jay made it is the fact he enjoys teaching and hopes to get more people into PLO. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Any thoughts about Plo Lab,since Plo university is not available anymore?

I'm just a US grinder on softer sites so take that into consideration with my review.

Jnandez outlines good fundamentals as far as preflop play. As ibury mentioned it does seem very nitty to me, but is probably a good style for people new to PLO. I did enjoy his play and explains though as far as just learning/watching how he approaches hands. Jnandez does also seem to advocate "hero" folding a lot which I think is actually fairly solid. One of my biggest leaks (still to this day) is not giving up rivers against nits or thinking through ranges on the river. For me maybe a 6/10, for beginners I'd say it is worth it.

Weird part was he had 2 nobodies (sorry if you guy's read this, just have no background on who you are and Jnandez didn't intro to my knowledge) who also commented during some parts of the Lab that I had no basis to trust them on. The one guy for sure seemed as if he played low stakes PLO based on his live experience video so confused as to why J brought them in.

Comparatively, I've had runitonce elite memberships and still think just listening to Galfonds videos alone benefited me 10x to Jnandez' course at the same price (I believe?). Also, Phil's voice

10x lol

If PloLab is 6/10 which is very good,and RIO 10x better you should be crushing high stakes,not grinding on some soft sites.Also common point

that Jnandez stuff is too nitty doen`t make much sense.If someone is playing very loose and that`s bringing money there is no need for any course.He is obviously saying that`s the right way to play plo profitably,anybody who doesn`t agree is free to prove the opposite.