Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th Suit
i am asking for an explanation or an attempt at reasoning for those who agree with the outputs.
First, the burden is proof is on those who disagree with the outputs - not those who agree with the outputs. We should all be taking the outputs as truth, and trying to understand the reasoning behind them. If you are approaching this differently let me know and we can go our separate ways as I have nothing really to discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th Suit
in my opinion the inputs are flawed and so goes with the output.
What? This feels a bit like non-sense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsonchin
These are not trivial differences and the inputs are correct
Yeah.
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Yeah, so crimson has hit on all of this IMO, but I can try and elaborate.
First, this sim I showed was for hands in the original post and RFI EV's from the button, but the position matters little with respect to ordinal ranking of these specific hands and just changes the pure EV (more EV on the button than EP).
Second, forget Hwang and all "charts" prior to sims. That's just "feel" and logic and doesn't get at the heart of the game that has been exposed by computers.
Third:
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsonchin
KJT8/kqt9 will flop draws more often than KQJ9 and run into domination issues less vs 3-bet ranges.
The computer sees this stuff that we don't. It sees that we get to semi-bluff and bluff more with these hands, and also make the nuts a similar amount, it sees all these situations that we just hand wave around and guess at relative strengths and weaknesses. We hand wave - it quantifies.
I don't feel that I'm qualified to explain all the nuances here, but suffice it to say that there ARE nuances, and the computer sees them and shows them to us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsonchin
The reason is domination issues vs 3betting ranges (aa,akxx) and cold calling ranges (high card and low card rundowns)
This covers a lot of it.
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You see this pattern show up a lot with sims - the computer loves TENS. See
this thread from last summer where someone rightly pointed out the old school players also knew the power of tens, but now we see it again and again. I was just getting deep into the weeds at the time and it was news to me, but a little bit of work reaped a lot of reward.