[HIGH] Top trips no kicker - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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[HIGH] Top trips no kicker

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10-02-2021 , 11:46 PM

DumbosTrunk

Verified Coach PLO5

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 7,317

Hi all,

V is action, rich investor type. Doesn’t have to have it to pot it. ( Could easily have 55 here or another random Jx.)

MP pro iso $100 over V limp, one caller, hero on the $25 BTN straddle completes four ways with JT984ds. (Fold pre seems a little snug.) $900 eff.

Flop ($410): JJ5r. V pots from SB, folds to hero? Easy rip or flat? Fold?

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: JJ5

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
JT984	44.68%	244,299	47,547
J****,55	55.32%	308,154	47,547

Thanks,
DT

Last edited by DumbosTrunk; 10-02-2021 at 11:53 PM.

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10-03-2021 , 12:55 AM

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,051

The main reason to call, would be to fold on a few turns if we put vilain on jx better kicker, but we are mostly commited.

Pre is a fold, putting in 1/9 of our stack not closing the action with a non-premium rundown doesn't seem correct. We really need final card to be connected to consider getting involved.

In 5 card, we need to be much more selective with rundowns anyway due to domination issue and can't gamble it up the same way we might in an action 4 card game.

When we do gamble we also prefer having a suited ace to fall back on.

Last edited by monikrazy; 10-03-2021 at 01:03 AM.

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10-03-2021 , 02:47 AM

DumbosTrunk

Verified Coach PLO5

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 7,317

Quote:

Originally Posted by monikrazy

Thanks mate. Is calling this pre a “big” mistake in the grand scheme of things? Like how bad was this call pre? Just trying to evaluate my play. Like if this is a glaring error versus a small one. ( FWIW I never expect SB limper to l/rr.)

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10-03-2021 , 05:41 AM

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,051

Please clarify its a mississipi straddle in OP.

I would consider this a medium to large mistake. Whenever we flat a large percentage of our stack that doesn't perform well vs squeeze or play particularly well postflop, we are looking at a scenarion where its easy to lose big.

All omaha games require disciplined ranges pre-flop. If you are playing in action games against weaker players its easy to start playing too many hands, or even if you are not, omaha can be a game of patience.

For reference: jt984ds is a coinflip vs random hand, even though it is a 30 percentile hand by ranking.

Last edited by monikrazy; 10-03-2021 at 05:56 AM.

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10-03-2021 , 06:27 AM

Loctus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,159

I can't comment for 5card ranges, but if this was pure JT98ss in PLO with these stack sizes it's not even a call on the button. Just saying. You need A LOT of maneuverability with these hands and with those stack depths you jsut don't have it

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10-03-2021 , 02:43 PM

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk

Is calling this pre a “big” mistake in the grand scheme of things? Like how bad was this call pre?

You're oop with a non nut hand in what will be a 4 way pot in a spot where you're trying to make the nuts. It's pretty bad.

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10-03-2021 , 03:18 PM

DumbosTrunk

Verified Coach PLO5

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 7,317

Wait, everyone knows I am the btn straddle (this game plays mandatory$25 btn straddle), effectively closing the action, right? That was the only reason I called. I would not call if it wasn't for being a little priced in otb. I'd fold in the blinds and with nothing already committed.

Probably still bad either way judging from everyone's comments. Thanks!

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10-03-2021 , 05:30 PM

PokerPlayingGamble

Dispute Unresolved

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 4,669

with the pot odds and having both absolute and relative position i think it should be fine to defend pre. equities run pretty close in 5 card plo.

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10-03-2021 , 05:52 PM

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble

equities run pretty close in 5 card plo.

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi Simulation

514,046 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
JT984	22.67%	105,401	22,851
20%	29.18%	141,736	17,068
50%	24.83%	118,680	18,444
80%	23.31%	111,701	16,793

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi Simulation

493,566 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
JT984	22.03%	97,801	22,434
20%	28.66%	133,332	16,765
50%	24.56%	112,558	17,829
50%	24.75%	113,650	17,558

The equities do run "close" but the last image shows what we should be doing pre.

Last edited by .isolated; 10-03-2021 at 06:00 PM. Reason: edited last image to make hand double suited

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10-03-2021 , 08:57 PM

#10

J4J

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 100

Buy more chips or fold pre with that stack size.

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