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***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** ***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD***

10-24-2008 , 01:18 AM
Poker Stars $1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $368.30
SB: $688.55
BB: $161.20
UTG: $210.80
Hero (CO): $278.55

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is CO with Q 9 Q 4
1 fold, Hero raises to $7, BTN calls $7, 1 fold, BB calls $5

Flop: ($22.00) T T Q (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $16, BTN calls $16, BB folds

Turn: ($54.00) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $42, BTN calls $42

River: ($138.00) K (2 players)
Hero bets $110, BTN calls $110

Final Pot: $358.00
BTN mucks 8 A T Q
Hero shows Q 9 Q 4 (a full house, Queens full of Tens)
Hero wins $356.00
(Rake: $2.00)

Hero: wtf how do you never raise?
Villain: cuz you wouldn't try to bluff me
Villain: and i had a bluff catcher

Villain is solid TAG.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 08:17 AM
its criminal to make such a good post in bbv thread DMoogle
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 09:29 AM
DMoogle: I agree with all the general ideas you're saying, particularly playing out of position obv. I do think it is probably optimal to be 3-betting good players in position a lot more frequently than you seem to imply though, but that's assuming you play well post-flop (I don't that well yet, that's why I don't 3bet TAGs a ridiculous amount even in position).
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 09:54 AM
+1 on everything that DMoogle sais and his points is to a very big degree the exact reasons why I 3-bet very seldom OOP (and to some degree even in opsition) with ~100bb stacks that I have said many many times in this forum.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle
I do believe it is MUCH better to 3-bet too few hands than it is to 3-bet too many hands.
Agreed.
But with <100bb stacks i think it is okay to 3bet (AQ97 is fairly weak) a semi-premium hand oop, which will flop better far more frequently and more often than loose aggro villains. The only decision left is usually whether or not to try get it in on the flop.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaBalla
I think I saw you taking a few shots then. Moving up soon though?
Trying...

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $225.05
BTN: $50.60
Hero (SB): $100.45
BB: $104.60

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with 8 A T 9
CO raises to $2, BTN calls $2, Hero raises to $9, 1 fold, CO calls $7, 1 fold

Flop: ($21.00) 9 5 A (2 players)
Hero bets $21, CO raises to $84, Hero raises to $91.45 all in, CO calls $7.45

Turn: ($203.90) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($203.90) 2 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $203.90
CO shows 3 2 3 A (a straight, Five high)
Hero shows 8 A T 9 (two pair, Aces and Nines)
CO wins $201.90
(Rake: $2.00)
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 01:51 PM
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $91.60
BTN: $115.60
SB: $103.50
BB: $24.50
Hero (UTG): $208.25

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with 7 K Q J
Hero raises to $3.50, 2 folds, SB calls $3, BB calls $2.50

Flop: ($10.50) 3 7 J (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $40, BB folds, Hero calls $30

Turn: ($90.50) 5 (2 players)
SB bets $60 all in, Hero calls $60

River: ($210.50) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $210.50
SB shows 7h 3s 8h 7s (three of a kind, Sevens)
Hero shows 7d Kd Qh Jc (a flush, King high)
Hero wins $208.50
(Rake: $2.00)




MWHAHA! RUNGOOT

Best thing is I left pretty quick after this as I was playing pretty crappy.

ALL IN LUCK?! IS THAT YOU? RETOURNEZ, RETOURNEZ, RETOURNEZ-VOUS.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 02:11 PM
Outplayed.....


Poker Stars $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $89.00
BTN: $269.30
SB: $43.50
Hero (BB): $146.55
UTG: $100.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with 8 6 7 4
2 folds, BTN raises to $3.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.50) 5 9 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, BTN raises to $14, Hero raises to $40, BTN calls $26

Turn: ($87.50) T (2 players)
Hero bets $85.50, BTN raises to $171, Hero calls $17.55 all in

River: ($293.60) K (2 players - 1 is all in)

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $293.60
BTN shows 7h Tc Th Td (three of a kind, Tens)
Hero shows 8c 6d 7d 4d (a pair of Fours)
BTN wins $291.60
(Rake: $2.00)
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomChan
its criminal to make such a good post in bbv thread DMoogle
Yeah I'm not really treating this as a BBV thread at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaBalla
DMoogle: I agree with all the general ideas you're saying, particularly playing out of position obv. I do think it is probably optimal to be 3-betting good players in position a lot more frequently than you seem to imply though, but that's assuming you play well post-flop (I don't that well yet, that's why I don't 3bet TAGs a ridiculous amount even in position).
Almost certainly. Position makes all the difference.

Now think about HU play... the only way you'll ever be in position when you 3-bet is when you limp/re-raise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon20k
Agreed.
But with <100bb stacks i think it is okay to 3bet (AQ97 is fairly weak) a semi-premium hand oop, which will flop better far more frequently and more often than loose aggro villains. The only decision left is usually whether or not to try get it in on the flop.
Definitely. Small stack sizes change postflop decisions drastically, and will probably make the hand much easier to play.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 07:54 PM
Villains range was way wider than AA pre, but still trying to rep it post when you have close to zero FE isn't optimal imo. My jaw dropped when the pot started shipping towards me.


Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $20.35
Hero (SB): $101.65
BB: $63.30
UTG: $47.75
MP: $27.10
CO: $40.15

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with T Q 8 J
4 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $4.50, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($9.00) 7 K A (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $7, Hero raises to $29.55, BB raises to $58.80 all in, Hero calls $29.25

Turn: ($126.60) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($126.60) A (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $126.60
Hero shows T Q 8 J (a pair of Aces)
BB mucks 9 4 J 8
Hero wins $123.60
(Rake: $3.00)
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle
This is all theory, obviously. I've been applying it with success, but with a small sample size. I don't know how "correct" I am.

I would hope this isn't a standard play, but I really don't think it's a good play here either. There are three immediate benefits I can see from reraising here:

1. Increase the pot size when you have an equity advantage against their range
2. Narrow their range (if you know they always 4-bet AAxx and they just call your re-raise, you know they don't have AAxx)
3. Take initiative in the hand. Increasing the pot size with an equity advantage is where there's one of the biggest differences between PLO and NLHE. Preflop in PLO, edges generally are MUCH smaller than in NLHE, so the equity advantage you gain here is very small (and possibly -EV against better opponents, or at least tighter ones). Narrowing their range is great, although this effect is definitely amplified the more you know how your opponent plays. Taking initiative in the hand isn't very important at all here though, because we're OOP in a 3-way pot against two fish.

In both PLO and NLHE (less so in PLO, which goes back to why I believe in a more passive style preflop), there are two major reasons for re-raising preflop. Those two reasons are for value and for fold equity (both preflop and postflop) (it's interesting how they are kind of contradicting elements, isn't it?). Notice how those two reasons are small and non-existent here. This is huge.

Now weigh this against these disadvantages:
1. You're out of position. This hurts almost every reason you have to 3-bet. When someone has position, they have a lot more room to maneuver, and thus may play trickier. This means that you won't be able to narrow their range as much. Now, we're playing against fish here so this is not necessarily the case, but it's something to keep in mind. Being OOP also makes initiative in a 3-way pot against fish practically worthless. Being OOP ALSO means you're less likely to extract value postflop from your strong hands.
2. Makes the hand harder to play. Although we might have a hand stronger than the ones in their ranges, we still don't have a very strong hand, and we're likely to get into some marginal situations where we'll be faced with tough decisions with hands like top pair and mid two pair.
3. Increases variance. Bigger average pot sizes = more variance. More variance = more swings. More swings = more stress. More stress = more tilt. More tilt = less money in your pocket.

I'm NOT saying that you shouldn't ever 3-bet from the SB, because there can definitely be enough elements in your favor that would make it a good play. However, I do believe it is MUCH better to 3-bet too few hands than it is to 3-bet too many hands.


Excellent post. I've been having huge swing lately and 3 betting from the blinds with V good hands vs players who never fold to it has probably been the reason why.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 10:16 PM
This one made me chuckle

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $134.00
UTG: $48.70
MP: $142.90
CO: $58.00
Hero (BTN): $156.80
SB: $52.25

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with Q T Q T
UTG raises to $3, 1 fold, CO calls $3, Hero calls $3, SB calls $2.50, BB calls $2

Flop: ($15.00) T 7 9 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($15.00) 6 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $3, CO calls $3, Hero calls $3, SB calls $3, BB folds

River: ($27.00) 6 (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets $13, CO raises to $52 all in, Hero calls $52, SB folds, UTG calls $29.70 all in

Final Pot: $173.70
UTG mucks 4 A 9 9
CO shows 7 7 A 8 (a full house, Sevens full of Sixes)
Hero shows Q T Q T (a full house, Tens full of Sixes)
Hero wins $18.60
Hero wins $152.10
(Rake: $3.00)
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-24-2008 , 11:51 PM
i can't believe this actually worked lol.


Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $19.75
Hero (UTG): $111.65
MP: $45.75
CO: $39.60
BTN: $119.80
SB: $48.25

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG with J Q Q 5
Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, BTN calls $1.10, 1 fold, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($3.55) A 9 Q (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3, BTN calls $3, BB folds

Turn: ($9.55) K (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($9.55) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $4.75, Hero raises to $9.50, BTN calls $4.75

Final Pot: $28.55
Hero shows J Q Q 5 (a straight, Ace high)
BTN mucks K 2 8 A
Hero wins $27.15
(Rake: $1.40)
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 07:47 AM
I think Dmoogle's post should go on the "Best of thread: Videos, great posts etc... "
..opinions?
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 12:25 PM
I'm very very very very good at this game.

Full Tilt Poker $1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $235.40
SB: $358.95
BB: $231.90
UTG: $294.80
MP: $508.50
CO: $200.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BTN with Q 7 8 Q
UTG calls $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $2, SB calls $1, BB checks

Flop: ($8.00) Q 4 K (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $7.50, SB calls $7.50, BB raises to $32.50, UTG folds, Hero raises to $113, SB folds, BB raises to $229.90 all in, Hero calls $116.90

Turn: ($475.30) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($475.30) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $475.30
Hero shows Q 7 8 Q (four of a kind, Queens)
BB shows K K 8 4 (a full house, Kings full of Queens)
Hero wins $472.30
(Rake: $3.00)
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 01:52 PM
BEAT: 50K hands breakeven stretch @ PLO100 6-max.







Played like a tilty bitch at times.

Thought I was such a good player when I was $7k up after 35K hands. Now realize I was running like God.

BRAG: still 4.5ptbb/100 winner with ridiculous tilt sessions over 80K hands.

VARIANCE: Not 100% sure if I am actually a winning player anymore.
VARIANCE: Taking a shot at PLO200 now.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 02:00 PM
This game is the work of the devil.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 02:10 PM
^ wow and I thought I was running bad all-ins.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 03:41 PM
oh, i see ... that why you bet so much....


Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $166.50
BB: $381.10
CO: $836.50
Hero (BTN): $979.10

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BTN with T J 7 K
CO raises to $14, Hero calls $14, 2 folds

Flop: ($34.00) 8 T 6 (2 players)
CO bets $20, Hero calls $20

Turn: ($74.00) 2 (2 players)
CO bets $52, Hero calls $52

River: ($178.00) A (2 players)
CO bets $148, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $148

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $474.00
CO shows 4s Qh Th 3s (a pair of Tens)
Hero shows Tc Js 7s Kd (a pair of Tens)
Hero wins $472.00
(Rake: $2.00)
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMagnet
Excellent post. I've been having huge swing lately and 3 betting from the blinds with V good hands vs players who never fold to it has probably been the reason why.
First, yes, excellent post by DMoogle.

But, this is the "key part" to 3betting OOP: if you're up against someone who will never fold PF and make your life hell post-flop, then it makes far more sense to just flat more often, even if it makes you feel weak or dirty or whatever. However, there are plenty of people who just aren't looking to get into those pissing contests post-flop and will fold the flop pretty often.

I think DMoogle was mostly referring to the merits of 3betting OOP in a multiway situation (although he did discuss HU situations) where everything becomes amplified: more people makes it more likely someone will see the flop; once that first person calls, it almost acts as a cascade effect where the others will too. And now you just have to fade too many cards to take the flop down with a c-bet, which means you're pouring money into the pot in a ridiculously marginal spot: like DMoogle said, this is what will cause your variance to sky-rocket.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 05:47 PM


PL 100 regulars from Wednesday to Saturday on FTP and PS... you're welcome.

***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 11:04 PM
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $98.10
BB: $158.60
UTG: $32.85
MP: $14.00
Hero (CO): $325.40
BTN: $21.95

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with 7 A 6 A
2 folds, Hero raises to $3.50, 1 fold, SB calls $3, BB raises to $14, Hero raises to $45.50, 1 fold, BB calls $31.50

Flop: ($94.50) 5 8 Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $70, BB raises to $113.10 all in, Hero calls $43.10

Turn: ($320.70) K (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($320.70) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $320.70
BB shows 9 K K 9 (three of a kind, Kings)
Hero mucks 7 A 6 A
BB wins $317.70
(Rake: $3.00)

That close to a +11 BI session. Meh.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBETUFOLD33
Outplayed.....


Poker Stars $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $89.00
BTN: $269.30
SB: $43.50
Hero (BB): $146.55
UTG: $100.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with 8 6 7 4
2 folds, BTN raises to $3.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.50) 5 9 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, BTN raises to $14, Hero raises to $40, BTN calls $26

Turn: ($87.50) T (2 players)
Hero bets $85.50, BTN raises to $171, Hero calls $17.55 all in

River: ($293.60) K (2 players - 1 is all in)

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $293.60
BTN shows 7h Tc Th Td (three of a kind, Tens)
Hero shows 8c 6d 7d 4d (a pair of Fours)
BTN wins $291.60
(Rake: $2.00)
LoL. Soul Crush
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote
10-25-2008 , 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly_Fox
LoL. Soul Crush
I know right? I simply typed "nh" as to not scare him off, but he berated me called me a fish and insta left anyway.
***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD*** Quote

      
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