[HIGH] Single raised pot, mulitway top 2 - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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[HIGH] Single raised pot, mulitway top 2

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12-28-2023 , 11:43 AM

PhatPots

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,934

2/5 PLO, 6 handed

UTG is a good player. Very Aggro, but good.

MP is a bad player, VPIP too high and overplaying there hand in a lot of spots.

UTG 170BB
MP 100BB
Hero 100BB in SB

Preflop: Hero has T

UTG raises to 3.4BB, MP calls, 2 folds, Hero calls in SB, BB folds

Flop: 8

Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets pot for 11.2BB, Hero calls, UTG raises to 56BB, MP shoves, hero folds?

Standard? Does anyone do anything different in this spot? Should I be leading the flop?

My thinking is that there are a lot of turns that are going to be bad for me and I won't know what to do.

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12-31-2023 , 09:58 AM

hoosak

stranger

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1

This board is better for the blinds than UDG
I would lead 1/3 pot and fold to a full pot reraise. The 1/3 pot sets up later bluff if the hand evolves, also applies pressure to a lot of draws my opponents may have

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12-31-2023 , 10:57 AM

pokerfan655

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,386

It's interesting to develop a donk range in this spot and this might not be a bad candidate to do it with as we want to deny equity and UTG probably checks this back a lot.

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12-31-2023 , 11:45 AM

crimsonchin

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,945

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

It's interesting to develop a donk range in this spot and this might not be a bad candidate to do it with as we want to deny equity and UTG probably checks this back a lot.

Good thinking overall but I think it’s problematic here without clubs, how will you play overcard turns? You end up having to cf half the deck.

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12-31-2023 , 12:35 PM

pokerfan655

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonchin

Good thinking overall but I think it’s problematic here without clubs, how will you play overcard turns? You end up having to cf half the deck.

Yes it won't be fun to play but check/calling OOP or having it check through is worse imo.

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12-31-2023 , 12:53 PM

crimsonchin

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,945

How will you play
A,K,Q,J,4,5, clubs?

That’s like 29 cards. With two cards to come. Betting will bloat the pot and incentivise weaker holdings to bluff you off the hand, therefor it’s more navigable in a smaller pot.

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12-31-2023 , 09:04 PM

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

Fold and not close.

Don't donk this hand, you hate all the turns. With bdfd/fd/fd blockers maybe.

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01-01-2024 , 11:12 AM

pokerfan655

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonchin

Why would donking incentivize weaker hands to bluff you? If anything it would do the opposite. There's no easy way to play a hand like this - if you check you're at the mercy of two players who will realize their equity and there's so many bad turns/rivers. The point of donking would be to potentially fold weak draws, avoiding the flop checking through, protecting our equity, and avoid getting bluffed as often. If your opponents are tough you're going to get abused check/calling here.

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01-01-2024 , 11:42 AM

crimsonchin

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,945

When you bloat the pot you will incentivise weaker hands to bluff you out on later streets, the exact kinds of hands that often would just check it down in a smaller pot. This is why it’s bad to bloat pots with mediocre hands that would realise their showdown value more easily in a small pot.

Donking these kinds of hands can give the illusion that it’s a good strat because you will win the pot more often. But you will also lose larger pots and in the whole it’s worse ev than checking and playing a smaller hand.

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01-01-2024 , 11:55 AM

#10

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

There's no way to not get "abused" with this hand, it's a marginal holding multiway with few nut outs OOP. It gets much worse in a bigger pot.

It's not like you have tons of equity on the flop.

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01-01-2024 , 12:03 PM

#11

crimsonchin

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,945

So I looked at some 5card 3w solutions.

This kind of hand likes to lead with fd blocker and bdfd interaction. It just gives you that extra FE and playability on turns.

Without fd blocker/bdfd always checking.

The more we are in position the better it becomes to bet this kind of hand. The more OOP we are the more we need extra blockers and playability to lead.

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01-03-2024 , 08:21 AM

#12

sauhund

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 5,936

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonchin

Does it lead from the SB too? Intuitively, I think this board does not interact greatly with our SB cold calling range.

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01-03-2024 , 10:02 PM

#13

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,055

I'm guessing pre is a 3! or fold, but post-flop looks good.

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01-04-2024 , 03:21 AM

#14

sauhund

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 5,936

Quote:

Originally Posted by monikrazy

I'm guessing pre is a 3! or fold, but post-flop looks good.

I would be interested too, if somewhat could run that.My guess would be that it is a call as well as T886ds, and T866ds becomes a fold. I think it almost never 3bets.
Weirdly enough, I have a feeling that on the button, it might actually be a fold since we have two 3bet-happy spots behind and it plays bad in a 3bet pot.
Just my guess.

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01-04-2024 , 08:58 AM

#15

crimsonchin

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,945

3b from the sb is spewy, ds midpairs/rundowns almost always just flat and see a flop. Your hand is not that strong and 3betting just bloats the pot without any upside. You’ll always flop mediocre pairs and shitty draws and end up getting it in dominated.

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01-04-2024 , 08:59 AM

#16

crimsonchin

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,945

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauhund

Does it lead from the SB too? Intuitively, I think this board does not interact greatly with our SB cold calling range.

I haven’t ran any sb multi-way single raised pot as it happens quite infrequently and it’s principles can be derived from looking at hu SRP v btn and bb 3 way spots.

I’m guessing you’re right, the sb range wouldn’t interact strongly enough to justify leading this hand if it’s not leading it from the bb. Turn playability in larger pot is key here for which we need a fd blocker and/or bdfd.

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01-04-2024 , 11:40 AM

#17

sauhund

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 5,936

Can you tell me, which solver you use? Thinking about getting one, I think it would be really helpful in preflop spots like these...

For example, I used to play that type of hand all the time when otb and just facing an open, but in tougher games I lately just folded it. Getting squeezed and having to play a 3bet pot 100bb+ deep really sucks with this hand imo. Also, I think if we are UTG+1 and call an open from UTG with this hand it feels like a pretty big punt. Figuering out, where exactly the line is would be helpful I think.

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