PokerBros - $0.2 Ante $0.04 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 157.85 BB
SB: 328.75 BB
BB: 20 BB
UTG: 22.05 BB
MP: 11.5 BB
CO: 125 BB

6 players post ante of 0.2 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.7 BB) Hero has 7 Q Q A

fold, fold, CO raises to 4.7 BB, Hero calls 4.7 BB, SB calls 4.2 BB, fold

Flop: (16.3 BB, 3 players) J A 8
SB checks, CO bets 16.3 BB, Hero calls 16.3 BB, SB calls 16.3 BB

Turn: (65.2 BB, 3 players) 3
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets 32.6 BB, SB calls 32.6 BB, CO calls 32.6 BB

River: (163 BB, 3 players) 6
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets 104.05 BB and is all-in, SB calls 104.05 BB, fold

What do you guys think here? It's really not a good card for us, we do have the blocker though.

This is somewhat of a garbage hand but the call pre is ok. Flop is defintely a fold - on the turn you go into spew mode. I guess when you get to the river as played bluffing isn't bad - I would think villains are capped at maybe A8, but I would be a little concerned someone backdoored some kind of flush.

You're blocking one of your bluff cards on the flop. Just fold. Folding pre probably isn't bad either.

Fold at every opportunity.

Why is the flop a fold?

It's rainbow and hero has two queens blocking the high straight, with a somewhat lesser but relevant 7 blocking the low.

In general, don't we expect to be more competitive with a CO Ax? Yes, SB calls but since he didn't 3Bet, we're pretty much eliminating AA, KK and obviously the much less likely QQ, aren't we? So, maybe SB has JJ and is playing conservatively? On the river, I can see not betting the nut blocker vs. two players but on the other hand, it's big pot that's unpaired and the only straight that we're considering is a hand with T97x - maybe JT97? Does a bare straight call a flush bet on the river? Maybe a straight with a Jack high flush? Still, the SB and the CO both checked the river.

Sorry to ramble but I'm just throwing this out there.

I mainly play live, but on the flop I'd either fold or raise as a bluff (rarely). Sure, we have blockers, but CO still should have a range advantage over us on this board and we have another player left to act behind us as well. It is also microlimits, and barring any specific reads, I'd assume that a lot of our opponents will be incompentent and overvalue marginal holdings that still beat us. And maybe the most important thing of all - our hand has no chances of improving to anything reasonable, we don't even have a backdoor flush draw and our queen outs could very well already be dead to AA or KT.

If you want to bluff this, I think you need to raise the flop. We block top set, we block the high wrap and we block the lower end of the low wrap as well. However, on a board like this I think this is spewy too, since CO has all the AA combos and noone will fold JJ on a board like this either. We might get some folds from AJ/88 that have us crushed, and a re-raise could also fold out J8 and A8 combos as well.

When it comes to bluffs and playing past the flop in PLO, I would prefer to go with a hand that at least has some backdoor opportunities in case we get called.

Man, lots more discussion and thinking than I even considered.

A lot of my play here was based on them having 40-60% VPIPs, so they just have so many weak hands in their ranges. I can look up their exact VPIPs if anyone is interested, though I doubt it makes much difference here.

Looks like I need to work a lot on thinking about combos and card removal. V showed up with Q high flush in the end.

The main problem with this hand is that you have barely no chance to improve to a better hand and many of their weak hands will still end up beating AQ (if they already aren´t ahead), and against 40-60% VPIP players there really isn´t a need to run elaborate multi-street bluffs where you have little to no chances of improving to a better hand, especially when such players I would assume also will overvalue non-nutted hands on the river (and thus call with hands they "shouldn´t" call with). I ran a quick equity sim where I gave V1 Ax and V2 all 2p+ combos as well as T9/KQ:

Hand Equity
AcQsQh7s 16.17%
Ax 40.31%
J8,88,JJ,T9,KQ,AJ 43.52%

And heads up vs a range of Ax isn´t looking too good either:
AcQsQh7s 34.74%
Ax 65.26%

I think this illustrates my point of why AQQ is such a trashy hand on this board.

Another thing to consider is the stack sizes (although against the type of V it might matter less) - after the SB overcalls your turn bet, you have less than 2/3 pot behind, meaning that it is less likely that a shove will get through.

I will have to think about that and digest it for a bit. Thanks for that detailed response!

Results:

Maybe it's just me but I think the SB is a player that you definitely want to play against in the future. Calls QTT4 single suited to a CO raise and BTN call, huh? Then, he calls off two streets for a gutshot and Q high bdfd, only to check the river and call for 100 + BBs? I wonder if he would call a lesser flush for 100 bbs?

Absolutely. But there was really nothing super special about him. Almost all of them play like that at this level.

I've generally treated them as live players, meaning I bet until they give me a reason not to do so.

Which is probably setting me up for problems when I move up down the road. But that seems to be the general population on PokerBros.

If he plays this hand preflop, the flop call is mandatory - it's a double gutshot with a bdfd. Turn I would prefer to check-raise all-in and represent a strong, made hand here, but I guess you can call as well - the odds are definately there. Holding three clubs also makes it less likely that one of the other players has the same bdfd. Sure, it should have been folded pre, but if you play QTT4 then folding on this flop or turn is insanity.

Seeing what he showed up with, does that change any of the thinking or is it still just kind of one of those situations where we can find a better spot? No idea what V2 had, so it's possible I was behind him before the river as well.

V played it better than hero. Both are obviously super fishie plays.

Not at all, since my thoughts were based on the hand before results.

In general, you do not want to hold paired Ax hands without draws on A-high boards in pots with high SPR. You can rarely raise these as bluffs on the flop IMHO, however, I'd still rather bluff with a hand that has nut/2p draws (ie non-paired Ax) or at least some good backdoors. This particular spot is even worse since your set outs complete a number of straights.

Gotcha, that makes sense. Lots of little details in this game to learn.

3bet pre. folding is LOL

I like that too.

Setting yourself up PF having to 3 barrel with no good flops or draws other than a Q can't be something you should be too excited about.

Folding pre is fairly nitty, but if you don't have an understanding of why you should be flatting or 3betting or folding in general in this spot, and an understanding of how the players at this table affect those decisions, you might be best off just folding.

How wide is CO's opening range? How does CO play postflop? What about the blinds? Would you prefer to play this hand multiway or HU?

Thanks to both of you. I'm trying to work on paying more attention to stats on my HUD to answer those questions.

It's more than just HUD stats. That gives you an idea of preflop ranges, and some general sense of postflop tendencies, but the most valuable information is paying attention to hands and seeing how people are playing in a specific table dynamic. Do they play their draws passively? What hands do they cbet with? How wide do they float flops? Do they autobet when checked to? How frequently are they bluffing rivers? Etc.

Lacking that, you want to at least have a decent idea of how a general player type plays in the game you're in. Are they drawing to lots of non-nut hands? If so, you can play more suited ace hands than you might otherwise. Are they going broke with bottom set/2 pair? If so, you can play more naked big pairs. Are most flop raises made hands? If so, bet/fold more. Etc.

What was your thought process for this hand? Did you consider all three options preflop? What would be different it was suited to the A instead of the Q?

Ya'll got to stop asking such tough questions. Got to keep working on my thinking.

A super underrated tool was the window Pstars had where you could quickly look at the last 20 hands or whatever was played since the table was opened. Probably was just as or more valuable than a HUD. I doubt pokerbros has that, bovada's sucks and doesn't work most of the time.

It's hard to diagnose at micro limits habd ranges usually go out the door when your playing for Penny's