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Raise, Call, or Fold: AKJT on A883Kddd Raise, Call, or Fold: AKJT on A883Kddd
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09-16-2023 , 04:43 PM
#1
bigoilboomer
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5-5 PLO

BTN straddles. Three fish limp. Hero raises to 65 in the CO with As Ks Jc Th. BTN folds. Limpers call. Everyone deep.

Flop Ad 8d 8h

Everyone checks.

Turn 3d

Everyone checks. (Maybe I should’ve bet 75.)

River Kc

First limper checks. Second limper bets 125. Third limper folds.

Hero?
Raise, Call, or Fold: AKJT on A883Kddd Quote
09-17-2023 , 02:12 AM
#2
OmahaDonk
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Fold though you have a good bluffing hand. Definitely don’t call.
Raise, Call, or Fold: AKJT on A883Kddd Quote
09-17-2023 , 12:16 PM
#3
CardiffGiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
Fold though you have a good bluffing hand.
Please explain. If not this hand, what hand would be a better bluff?
Raise, Call, or Fold: AKJT on A883Kddd Quote
09-17-2023 , 12:44 PM
#4
OmahaDonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CardiffGiant
Please explain. If not this hand, what hand would be a better bluff?
Villain described as fish, it’s possible we don’t want any bluffs.
Raise, Call, or Fold: AKJT on A883Kddd Quote
09-17-2023 , 02:00 PM
#5
Bestcreature
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Interesting spot. I fold but it depends on my read on this particular fish and table dynamics. This feels to me like a naked 8 that is afraid of the flush on the turn or someone who hit their flush on the turn. How sticky is V? Will this particular V call a raise with those hands or whatever hands you put him on?

I don't think you can just call the 125 profitably.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Raise, Call, or Fold: AKJT on A883Kddd Quote
09-18-2023 , 05:17 AM
#6
nootaboos
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I bet like $75? on the flop, possibly empty the clip over 3 streets depending on players.

As played just fold river we dont beat value and fish will even value bet a naked 8 here sometimes and it will tilt the **** out of you haha.
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09-18-2023 , 02:30 PM
#7
MarkD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nootaboos
I bet like $75? on the flop, possibly empty the clip over 3 streets depending on players.

As played just fold river we dont beat value and fish will even value bet a naked 8 here sometimes and it will tilt the **** out of you haha.
I agree I think we should be betting flop $75-120 feels like the right size (pot is $270 I think).

I think a strong naked 8 with a diamond blocker should be a value bet for at least one player on this river as this hand played out.

Considering the fish lead the river for a 45% bet what is your calling range on the river? I'm certainly calling all flushes and probably a number of 8's, although I feel like AK is a threshold fold. 83, A3, K3 are not in my river range given this action so...
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09-18-2023 , 02:31 PM
#8
MarkD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
Fold though you have a good bluffing hand. Definitely don’t call.
Without the Kd or Qd I think this should not be in our bluff raise range.
Raise, Call, or Fold: AKJT on A883Kddd Quote
09-18-2023 , 03:34 PM
#9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkD
Without the Kd or Qd I think this should not be in our bluff raise range.
We shouldn't have a bluff range here at all imo. If we did, then we need at least the Kd.
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09-18-2023 , 04:04 PM
#10
nootaboos
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Yeah calling all flushes and most 8T+?
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09-18-2023 , 05:18 PM
#11
MarkD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz
We shouldn't have a bluff range here at all imo. If we did, then we need at least the Kd.
I'm not sure I subscribe to never having a bluffing range when betting / raising, but in this exact spot I think it's probably fine to never have one. I probably have one and this hand, with a Kd blocker, might be the hand.
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09-18-2023 , 05:50 PM
#12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkD
I'm not sure I subscribe to never having a bluffing range when betting / raising, but in this exact spot I think it's probably fine to never have one. I probably have one and this hand, with a Kd blocker, might be the hand.
Theory of poker holds up well against other people who go by theory of poker too, but, even in theory of poker, there are spots where we should not have a bluff range.
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09-18-2023 , 06:03 PM
#13
nootaboos
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If we wanna bluff here, isn’t it kind of better to have the AK but not have the Kd?
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09-18-2023 , 06:07 PM
#14
nootaboos
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I mean don’t we want them to have Kd because we only repping boats and if we have the Kd then maybe some Q/J flushes can level themselves into calling as played?
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09-18-2023 , 06:29 PM
#15
MarkD
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It is much more likely a villian will call with the nut flush than any other flush, since we are bluffing and can't beat a flush, we want to block the hand that is in the flush category and most likely to call us.
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09-19-2023 , 10:10 PM
#16
nootaboos
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Lol yeah bro I grasp the concept.

How about this, on river vs our raise where does villain think our bluffs come from?
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09-20-2023 , 03:01 AM
#17
Round of 6
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Betting flop (as others have mentioned) because you deny equity to players who have a pocket pair in hand and can turn a set, or, someone with a Td9d type hand that can turn a flush. I bet flop small like 1/3 pot

Now people are debating river play. I agree calling is out of the question. If you’re going to raise as a bluff then you are repping KK only or slowplayed AA (hard to believe). You certainly will have some KK here but not many, want to be careful you’re not overdoing it AND you have an opponent who has some bet/folds.

I generally choose not to bluff raise because too many factors need to line up for it to work
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09-20-2023 , 08:17 PM
#18
pokerfan655
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Meh I would just fold - raising is interesting but he can have K8/KK/nut flush so I'd just concede and move on. You want to raise vs capped ranges - he's capped slightly but much better spots.
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09-24-2023 , 02:50 PM
#19
bigoilboomer
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I suck at PLO. I called. He slowly and sheepishly turns over 83 like he made a bad value bet.
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