is there a consensus as to a good red line bb/100 for small stakes games? I have been losing at about -1bb/100 for my first 120k hands played of 6max PLO at 100 and 200, and my red line has a slope of about -25bb/100. does this seem reasonable? I was talking to a friend of mine who has historically won at about 3bb/100 in similar games and iirc he said that his red line was around -5bb/100 or so o_O

^ That's not the right thread to ask, go to the stats thread imo. Having a significantly negative red line is standard for micro PLO, for PLO100-200 25bb/100 seems too much, afaik it's easier corrected not by bluffing more but by valuebetting thinner (i.e. checking fewer rivers).

The following hand rather belongs to BBV, but still I'd like to check if my actions are standard. Both villains are unknown. I played this 3-max table with a shortie on the right because I was testing a HUD configuration (with no success ), that was poor table selection ldo.

Microgaming - €0.20 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: €1.81
Hero (BTN): €20.00
SB: €15.46

SB posts SB €0.10, BB posts BB €0.20

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.30) Hero has 8 K 2 K

Hero raises to €0.70, SB calls €0.60, BB calls €0.50

Flop: (€2.10, 3 players) 6 J A
SB checks, BB bets €1.11 and is all-in, Hero calls €1.11, SB calls €1.11

Turn: (€5.43, 3 players) 6
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (€5.43, 3 players) K
SB bets €2.80, Hero raises to €13.65 putting SB all-in

way standard

Thanks, Clayton, it was nice to see you responding to me, a mere mortal.

Now I'd like the following seemingly too spewy hands to be rated (except for the ******ed preflop misclick in the former). Villains are unknown in both.

GTECH G2 (Boss) - $0.30 PL Hi (5 max) - Omaha Hi - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $30.00
Hero (BTN): $36.20
SB: $49.74
BB: $30.20

SB posts SB $0.15, BB posts BB $0.30

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.45) Hero has 7 4 9 T

UTG raises to $1.05, Hero calls $1.05, SB calls $0.90, fold

Flop: ($3.45, 3 players) 4 J 9
SB checks, UTG bets $2.58, Hero raises to $9.03, fold, UTG calls $6.45

Turn: ($21.51, 2 players) 3
UTG checks, Hero bets $19.92 putting UTG all-in

Microgaming - €0.40 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: €71.21
CO: €76.60
BTN: €36.60
Hero (SB): €40.00
BB: €84.14
UTG: €28.81

Hero posts SB €0.20, BB posts BB €0.40

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.60) Hero has Q T 5 Q

fold, fold, CO calls €0.40, BTN calls €0.40, Hero calls €0.20, BB raises to €2.00, CO calls €1.60, BTN calls €1.60, Hero calls €1.60

Flop: (€8.00, 4 players) 8 9 4
Hero bets €5.40, BB calls €5.40, fold, fold

Turn: (€18.80, 2 players) Q
Hero bets €12.60, BB calls €12.60

River: (€44.00, 2 players) 6
Hero bets €20.00 and is all-in

1. calling pre was the misclick I hope. Don't raise flop, it's closer to a fold than a raise. I'd probably call though with the gutter and bd fd. As played ott, shove.

2. bet more otf and pot ott

SB is 24/19, 11% 3b, which is the same oop as ip
BB is 25/20, 10% 3b, 3.8% 4b

SB is 29/19, 13% cold call 3b, 20% donk bet, 600h
CO is 29/21, 15% 3b, 59% fold to cb, 200hands

Both hands are wp.

In hand 1 you get the right direct odds if they both shove, simply because their possible aces may be blocking each other, and tons of implied odds IP in case SB flats.

In hand 2 I assign a donking range of TP+3OC, 2P, sets, OESD to SB (it's close to 20% of his PF range, maybe he's a bit tighter because he must be donking more on FD flops) and a solid 2P+, OESD range to BB, and still you have the odds. To put it simply, it's good that you've hit the board, you have 6-7 outs most of the time.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: 762

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
([K-8][K-8][K-8]7,76,72,62,77,66,22,98,85,54):13%6h!AA	31.96%	179,498	24,501
(76,72,62,77,66,22,98,85,54):15%6h!AA	41.94%	239,297	24,637
Ad6dAhKc	26.11%	156,481	310

As for my hands, thanks for answering. Preflop in the former was admittedly so bad that I regretted it even before seeing the flop. Potting two streets in the latter is exactly what I thought about in the hindsight.

Hand 1 ; Obviously a fold pre, but you're aware of that. Flop is ******ed, you get it in mega bad here. Raise small/folding is way better than potting here. We're IP so folding is probably too tight. But yeah, pretty monsterous spew.

Hand 2 ; Not super happy about it, but leading is def best. We hit the nut turn, so not much to discuss from there on in.

ndahlhoff : Both hands are standard.

Villain is unknown

i feel like flop should be a pot/fold or a check. that texture should be questioned as a standard cbet spot multiway when a good portion of the deck on the turn favors the flatcallers distribution.

tempted to check/call re-eval versus 1 player and check/fold vs a bet and a call. or hit the pot button and mash pot on safe turns vs 1 opponent.

I also pot flop. River is now kinda lost, think I'd call, even against an unknown. I just don't see how someone would check the turn with a straight on that board, don't believe he's going top bet pot with top 2, he'd raise flop with a set, IMO only valid hand is 99, but you've got a blocker for a 9. I'd call and pray.

**************************************************

Correct calc. right?
Assuming villain is going to shove everyflop, we've got singlesuited 6789.

130 bb deep

v1 raised 3.5
v2 called 3.5
Hero raised 15.5
sb bb fold
V1 raised 51.5
v2 fold

Hero 6789ss
Equity vs AA = 40.82%

Hero need to call 36bb

Pot flop = 108bb
Stack flop = 78.5

1/(1+2.376) * 100% = 29,6% equity threshold all-in flop.

http://propokertools.com/simulations...2=AA&s=generic

29.6% equity op top 62% flops.

Equity:

.62 * .296 = .18352
.5 * .62 * .554 = .17174
-------------------------+
35.5%

Avg equity on top 62% flops = (35.5/62) = .572

(1 - .62) * 36 + .62(.572(265) - 114.5) =

-13.7bb + 23.00 = +9.3bb

You can use pql to get more accurate threshold and river equity numbers:

Result: 59.42%

Result: 0.56

That makes the end result:
-(1 - .59) * 36 + .59(.56(265) - 114.5) = +5.2BB

Thanks for the tool, going to study it a bit

Wow, great stuff! Thank you for pointing it out Will surely have to play with it to get better...

The results will differ each simulation, right? I got 34686 trials with the threshold 20453 (58.97%).

Also one should consider rake, which is different at different stakes and will slightly affect the results.

I'm 290bbs deep with utg, who is a pretty not good reg. He plays 36/27, opens 26% utg. 7% 4b
CO is a bad reg as well. 3bets 8.4% from co, and 13% otb.

BvB sb steals, cbets I flat QT5ss turn 9s and I have a J high flush, he cbets 1/2 pot now do you call this and call rivers too? 100bb deep no info on the villian.

another one.

I steal with K883ssdd SB and BB flats. flop 633hhd SB has 36bb I have to bet/call vs the SS right? Again no info on him besides that he is a shortstack. at 10PLO

villain is the tables fish. is the turn bet/call ok ?


iPoker - £0.20 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: £20.00
Hero (UTG): £37.23
MP: £20.00
CO: £31.59
BTN: £30.23
SB: £20.71

SB posts SB £0.10, BB posts BB £0.20

Pre Flop: (pot: £0.30) Hero has K A T Q

Hero raises to £0.70, fold, fold, BTN calls £0.70, fold, fold

Flop: (£1.70, 2 players) K 2 A
Hero bets £1.27, BTN calls £1.27

Turn: (£4.24, 2 players) T
Hero bets £3.18, BTN raises to £13.78, Hero calls £10.60

River: (£31.80, 2 players) 2
Hero checks, BTN checks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO7I31VwUYg

What abut shipping? He is a fish and might call just top two so you freeroll him or he might just have a weaker FD himself, or is he not that bad?

edit: bolted is mistake!

A9TJds vs AA, thought I was making profit by 3betting small, since it's on 10PLO and people don't adjust by 4betting light, 4bet = Aces. But now I see I'm making a small loss with 3betting 9x AND calling the 4b?

I took 3.5bb rake.

100bb eff

V1 raise 3x
Hero raise 9x
V2 raise 31.5x

Stack flop = 68.5bb
Pot flop = 64.5bb

1/(1+((68.5+64.5)/68.5))
Equity treshold on flop = .3268

Result: 56.79%

Result: 0.56


(1 - .568 ) * [S](-31.5)[S] (-22.5) + .568 ((.56 * 198) - 91 )

-9.72 + 11.3 = + 1.58bb


Do you guys think it's worth it looking for such small edges in a Variance-kind a way? Stupid question right?

I took 3.5x rake, but is probably around 11~12bb. So option could be 3betting to like 8bb or something, but that's kinda gay imo. Thoughts?

lol

He didn't seem that aggro unless he had a big hand, so i don't think AKxx was in his range. Only QJxx (he did end up checking behind QJs4sX).
So i thought that taking a lower variance style of calling and shoving if i hit would be better in this spot (i'm sure he would've called if i hit, he had bet earlier 3rd-4th nuts -flush- and called my almost pot sized raise).