Ignition - $0.25 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 228.24 BB
BTN: 166.92 BB
SB: 152.4 BB
BB: 112.28 BB
UTG: 117.6 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8 T 4 Q

fold, Hero raises to 3.4 BB, fold, SB calls 3 BB, BB raises to 13.6 BB, Hero calls 10.2 BB, SB calls 10.2 BB

Flop: (40.8 BB, 3 players) 6 3 3
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 19.4 BB, fold, BB raises to 58.2 BB, fold

BB wins 75.64 BB

Is this a spot where we should start betting multiway? When we get bet and get raised, should we call? In the moment I was afraid of being dominated by overpairs with the heart flush draw, but I think V would be calling with that hand most of the time.

Also call pre is probably bad, I figured I would call because we have position and are double suited.

I wouldn't bet this hand, naked 3rd nut flush draw with basically nothing else on a paired board, just one 4 proximity blocker is pretty poor. And like you said higher flush draws are just going to call you anyway.

I think pre is a fold the first time around, and also to the squeeze.

clear open from the CO. Upswing RFI charts have us opening Q563 ds from this position, which is slightly more connected but substantially lower and a much worse hand IMO. also lacks connectivity with the hangler, whereas QT84 does connect albeit modestly with the dangler.


I think we can peel the squeeze also. our hand performs very well vs a three bet. Yes, we should play tighter vs a squeeze, yes our relative position sucks (we do have absolute position), but I still think we can profitably take a flop with this holding.



clear check on the flop for a number of reasons. we don't want to inflate the pot with our very weak flush draw. this is a relatively safe board for the preflop three bettor. it is multiway, so our standards for betting go up. our hand is just very weak in this situation.

Thank you for both of your comments.

I am inclined to think this is an open pre but was very hesitant to call the 3bet considering how nutted they are at these low stakes. I could definitely get behind either decision to call/fold and even fold pre.

Also, flop is a clear check, I believe in the spot I thought, "Why not probe and try to steal, board is better for us?", but we get owned by a check/raise which didn't come across my mind.

Also this spot in Monker is just a fold pre the first time around.

I don't hate the flop bet here. Typically our bluffs want to mirror our value bets, so a lot of our bluffs will contain a 6. Exploitatively, I've noticed players at these steaks are gonna play straight-forwardly and overfold in these spots. no need to bet so big, 1/4-1/3 pot work fine. Also your draw is so weak, the 'free' card ends up costing us plenty.

'Upswing RFI charts have us opening Q563 ds from this position'

These hands go down in value substantially at PLO25 with the high rake and overall looseness of players.

I suggested fold based on it being PLO25 on Ignition- max rake is 8bb, is this still an open?

Flop bet is optimistic, stacks are just too shallow and we don't have enough fold equity.

It we do bet flop think different sizing such as probe or large will be more challenging for opponents. But even that might be optimistic.

The Upswing RFI charts were derived with monker sims in a 10/20 rake structure. So it could well be at .10/.25 this hand is an open fold as you guys have been saying.

The upswong course takes some care to show that monker tightens up on the more passive actions (coldcalling, bb defense) as rake increases. But RFI, 3b, 4b stay pretty much the same. Looseness of the pool certainly isn't something monker considers. That said the shape of Q653 might be more desirable (hits flops better and in a less dominated way?) than QT84 but I'm no authority.

Ya max rake being 8bb compared to less than 1bb at 10/20 is a really big difference!

I'm not sure how high upswing goes in rake but this clearly isn't true in theory, imagine if rake was 30% uncapped. You would first off not play in this game, but if you were forced to and wanted to find the highest EV strategy, you would probably just do something like fold everything that isn't AAxx (actually probably also fold AAxx).

But are you saying that upswing is recommending VPIP'ing roughly the same percentages preflop for 5% rake capped at 8bb?

The context IIRC is in comparing monker ranges for 1/2 and 10/20. Their contention is that monker ranges between those two stakes primarily differ when it comes to passive preflop actions, specifically flat calling raises and defending the bb.

^ Yeah I can see that being the case- 1/2 on Ignition is capped at 2bb (again, big difference compared to .10/.25)

I believe matrix has this as a fold in the cutoff. Lowest combo it goes with that has QT8 is a QT86. That looking at their micro stakes charts.

Usually on paired boards I bet 1/3 if I am bluffing or not.