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Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback?

06-03-2023 , 02:47 AM
Is it possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes (PLO10 and PLO25) without rakeback? Im currently in a country that dont offers any rakeback.

I know the answer depends om how good you are and your playing style. Im pretty sure im better than the most players z10 and z25. Im 100 % sure that there are some few good regs at z25 that i prolly dont beat. I might be breakeven vs the best ones but i dont know.

So back to the question, given these circumstances: is it possible to beat those stakes? How big is the rake at those stakes?
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote
06-03-2023 , 03:14 AM
Is it possible to get a winrate >0?

Yes
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote
06-06-2023 , 05:05 AM
I think that people playing zoom on stars / rush&cash on ggpoker are quite tight, so the natural effect is that you also play tighter. This kind of caps your winrate since few people will get it in baddly. So just playing a disciplined tight style probably leads to a winrate that is below the rake you pay or in best case slightly above. Rakeback indeed might improve that into a moderate winrate.

On the other hand, if you play aggressively and try to steal, bluff cleverly, push your opponents around, you might exploit the general population tendency which is too nitty. This of course requires a lot of skill, experience and also tolerance for swings. I am not one to say how this should be done, but from what I've oberved this could lead to a nice winrate on these microstakes.

Regular tables however have a bunch of fish, random players just clicking around and not having a clue on what they're doing, and even regulars that are just bad or have many leaks. So there even with the high rake and no rakeback, you could definitely be a winning player at these stakes.
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote
07-28-2023 , 06:10 AM
plo25z is beatable. my guess is plo10 is also beatable, but I have no sample.

From my own db: plo 25 zoom 77k hands: 17.24bb/100 rake. I made a bunch of all in cash outs in this sample, so you probably can get away with much smaller rake bb/100.
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote
07-28-2023 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha6betAI
I made a bunch of all in cash outs
This is very fishy unless there are br issues involved i.e. it's hard to get money onto a site. Please understand that your job as a winning poker player is to take on variance, and 1% of your equity coming off the table is bad for the games and only good for the poker site. If you can't take the variance, improve your mental game rather than give away equity.
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote
07-29-2023 , 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz
If you can't take the variance, improve your mental game rather than give away equity.
Mental game is by far the hardest part of poker for a lot of players, including some pros. Seems kind of pointless to just tell someone to get better at it.
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote
07-29-2023 , 06:33 AM
Yes but you have to want to move up in stakes other wise it gets monotonous and it'll be to much of a grind for those stakes
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote
07-29-2023 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wumpy
Mental game is by far the hardest part of poker for a lot of players, including some pros. Seems kind of pointless to just tell someone to get better at it.
Why is it pointless? There's plenty of widely available resources for improving your mental game. I could give specific advice on how to improve the mental game if I knew what their mental game leaks are, but all I have to go on is that they don't like variance. It's similar advice to saying that if you can't beat play money, you should get better at poker before moving up to real money. Maybe they don't realise how much of a leak it is in a game of small edges to give away 1% repeatedly and is on a mental game autopilot and will benefit from having someone tell them to buck up their ideas. I'm not trying to have a go at them, I'm trying to keep money in the poker playing pool rather than have it go to the poker sites.
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote
07-31-2023 , 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz
This is very fishy unless there are br issues involved i.e. it's hard to get money onto a site. Please understand that your job as a winning poker player is to take on variance, and 1% of your equity coming off the table is bad for the games and only good for the poker site. If you can't take the variance, improve your mental game rather than give away equity.
You are somewhat right. I am not a professional poker player though, poker is fun and also gives me some extra bucks. Bankroll is not an issue. Sometimes you are happy to give away some of your EV in exchange for lower your variance, and keeping your temper cool. But it is legit, I have to improve my mental game and do not tilt when I lose x buyins in a short period of time.
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote
08-01-2023 , 01:18 PM
Rake is very high. Like -15BB/100. (Exact rate depends to some extent on the playing style of the hero and the player pool).

Its hard to be way over +15BB/100, even against bad players.

So most of the win rate will come from rakeback.
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote
08-05-2023 , 11:37 PM
working on basics if u understand everything correctly 10bbev/100 or even 20bbev+ is possible there
Possible to beat PLO zoom smallstakes without rakeback? Quote

      
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