PokerStars, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.50/$1.00 - 5 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $100.12 (100 bb)
CO: $176.31 (176 bb)
BU: $404.24 (404 bb)
SB (Hero): $206.82 (207 bb)
BB: $251.92 (252 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with T♦ 8♠ T♠ J♣
UTG raises to $3.50, 2 players fold, Hero calls $3, BB calls $2.50

Flop: ($10.50) 6♠ 4♥ T♣ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $4.99, UTG folds, Hero raises to $24.95, BB calls $19.96

Turn: ($60.40) 9♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $57.38, Hero calls $57.38

River: ($175.16) 2♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $120.99 (all-in), BB calls $120.99

i tried to rep clubs OTR w/o any blockers and he snapped me off with 875X. at this depth i don't think it's horrible, sometimes you can get thru. i feel i prolly could've xc'd a small rvr bet or more likely the rvr goes xx. I think sometimes i can buy it.

I'm curious if anyone folds turn at this depth, or plays differently from any point.

Thanks,
5th

Would rather jam turn than turn hand into bluff on the river. We shouldn't be too afraid of straight with 8 blocker.

Similarly, mostly prefer bluff-catching river since villain will fold most worse made hands.

"Would rather jam turn

totally, i think i can gii safely OTT with top set and oesd.

You could fold just because top set is like as good as two pair on more safe boards. Good thinking on the play but I prefer to play hands like these safely just because there's better opportunities.

Anyone just check calling the flop?

I like the play.

Obv x/r flop.

Not folding turn even though his range is 87 heavy.

On river, you are going to have flushes you will want to donk jam the river and you have to pull the bluffs from somewhere

Way too ambitious to think he'll fold a straight OTR. Turn check looks good -I think we need to respect his range after he called the raise and certainly he has a ton of 87. I'd just call the turn and see a river - really on the turn the only hands he bets are 87/57 - he checks behind worse value hands (2pr-sets) and bare 57 seems to be the only bluff he has at this point. I also think his sizing might be more 87ish than 57 - think with 57 he might size smaller to set up a bigger river bet.

call here is definitely better than potraise oop deep. even donkleading is better than potraise

I play only live low stakes, and I don't know if online PL100 is "low" or "mid," but this is how I would approach it.


Obv one blocker reduces the prevalence by 25% in his range, but how much does that matter in practice? To take it to the extreme -- there are spots where I would expect this to be overwhelmingly 87, and 75% of overwhelmingly is still pretty big. Given the "you check I bet" dynamic I think the range is wider here though. I'm not questioning the value of the blocker, just the "shouldn't be too afraid" when it seems a straight is still fairly likely.

Anyway the wide range when checked to and the huge number of outs to beat 87 justifies a call OTT. OTR in small stakes I'm not expecting to blow anyone off a small flush, only part of the time to blow them off a straight, and "the second bet is honest," so with showdown value I'm inclined to X/F. Depending on population reads for PL100 the bluff might not be too bad, but you're still going to run into a lot of flushes that stabbed the turn when checked to and then got there.

Wouldn't various other hands with two clubs bet here? The first level reasoning is, "He checked, he's probably scared, I have a draw, and I can maybe take the pot." The second level reasoning is, "He doesn't seem to have 87. If I miss my club on the river I can barrel to rep 87 and get a fold." I'm not necessarily claiming an unknown here is finding the latter reasoning but the former would lead to betting.

Apparently not if he's going to snap call (I'll pretend it was a snap call) with 87 here, at least until we expect him to adjust to our strong range. Update priors on this guy.

Would you elaborate on this please or point me toward where i can learn more about this

It's a dry flop so c/r on the flop is going to put you in a lot of bad spots. You also aren't c/r much of your range on this flop.

I would have check call the flop and then c/r any safe turn.

Calling with 87 isn't THAT outlandish. What hand is strong enough to c/r the flop but c/c turn after picking up a BDFD, then pots the river when the BDFD comes in?

Yeah, I made that sound like his call was outlandish and that isn't really my point. Could be a good bit of hand reading on his part. I guess we could have things like 75xx with decent clubs where the semibluff didn't work but we get sticky and optimistic OTT, or perhaps rarely T9 with the other two being clubs that we somehow played like wild on the flop then turned a mid-strength showdownable hand.

But anyway my point is, if he gets suspicious here (even appropriately so), then we don't need to be worried about finding bluffs to balance our donk-shove range here. We probably should ask ourselves if we even want to have a donk-shove range here, and if so, we need to play hands like ATTx, KTTx, or AT98 so that we can get here. But this is a rare enough spot and observed samples are so small that effort expended in range construction may not pay off.

BTW I just noticed that the flop ten being of clubs makes it hard for us to have the hand we have, but with clubs.

Is my math wrong or isn't it 75/25? Do you still not cc if even it is? Thanks

Oh, fair enough - totally agree!

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're asking?

A set w a picked up fd ott vs a straight on the turn. Isn't it like 75/25? Wouldn't that be more likely to be a cc? Because you said what kind of hand is strong enough to do what he did on flop but cc the turn after picking up bdfd

Ahhh, gotcha. It depends on card removal, but it's essentially 60/40. My turn line is really going to depend upon what I think of the villain, but assuming I check/raised the flop: if they tend towards tight, I'll check/call given the stack sizes here. But note that I really don't like check/raising the flop here with bare top set given the stack sizes because then we find ourselves OOP on the turn ~180BB deep.

Gotcha.. just wondering, if the pot was 3 bet pre and villain pots do we than raise it? In that situation my main question is how often does v have a straight rundown hand vs a made hand like a set. Would a set 60% of time be fairly accurate?

I think on turn his hand is mostly 87 like >80% of the time.

As for river, you can certainly make a case for not bluffing here because you don't believe a certain player can fold a made hand.

However, you certainly get to the river with flushes and you certainly want to pot donk them. Because you have flushes you are entitled to some bluffs. I'm not sure what other hands you have that you can bluff with.

Just be careful with never bluffing because it will keep you at low stakes forever.

I meant on flop if v pots.

Depends who the 3-bettor is. If it's still 3way to the flop, I'm actually more liable to lead out on the flop myself: it's a big pot, and hands like AKQJ or KQJ9 should be checking this flop, which I don't want. If it's still multiway, there's no guarantee he bets bare overpairs, and every turn card will either complete a draw or introduce another. Yes, it makes turns trickier, but you can't always avoid tricky spots, especially when playing deep.

To make the checkraise preferable, he either needs to 3bet rundown-type hands, or overplay high cards/bare overpairs. But with the T6 combo on the flop and us having a set of Ts, it's harder for him to have something like 789T, which is one of the few draws that will likely bet the flop; naked 789x combos will check behind some amount of the time given the stack sizes.

I'd fold pre. Don't have coldcalls SB vs HJ and this hand seems far from a 3bet.

sb cold calls are common in plo and often correct.

3betting oop pre is often a mistake.