stars, zoom is killing plo.

plo field is small, zoom and regular table won't survive togheter. pls stop this ******ed 2/5 , 5/10 zoom.

someone told me this , and i totally agree:

fish go broke fast, they dont get the same happiness-value for the same time
if they normally survive 1 hour with 1k on average they're broke in 30min on zoom

zoom tilts me infinitely, at least we have one 3/6 running now...
hi urub btw

death 2 zoom!!!

-118bb/100 on 2-5 playing 18 vpip :S why do u never get any good hands on zoom???

i sent email to stars about zoom 2/5. hope you guys send email too.

what did u write?

I'll play devil's advocate to you anti-zoomers and go back and forth for a few posts if you guys are willing not to duck the issues.

Do you anti-zoomers have any solid suggestions to solve the zoom/regular game problem? I mean besides just saying, "oh zoom is crappy, please PS don't allow zoom." I suggested fencing regular and zoom from each other by not offering the same variant on each, i.e. zoom deep ante ONLY, regular not having deep ante. You anti-zoomer got any better ideas?

Andddddd on an interesting note, the only non-zoom post today was about axelf table camping. Guess what, you can't table camp at zoom? At zoom Pokerstars does NOT have to address table camping, bum hunting, scripting, etc. I obviously can't speak for PS, but they might be fine a dandy with the higher stakes action being played only at zoom tables. This is a cold hard reality you anti-zoomer might need to start understanding...PS, but they might be fine a dandy with the higher stakes action being played only at zoom tables.

You anti-zoomer might want to wake up and get seriously practical/pragmatic about finding a solution that gets at least some of the regular game action back, instead of just whining on 2+2.

if you could choose, offer only zoom, or only regular tables, which one do you prefer?

i prefer regular tables.

if i want regular tables AND zoom, or only regular tables? i prefer zoom AND regular tables.

the problem is 2/4+ plo field is small, and its impossible to have zoom and regular tables running on this game.

im not against zoom, just because its zoom... im against zoom because this will kill action at regular tables.

i agree zoom has some merits, like impossible bumhunting, sitting out problem, easy to join a game, but theres some of bad things about zoom too.

Whats your problem with zoom? Zoom has action going all the time, there is no sitting out, there is no table switching, there is no following the fish around the tables. You can play so much more hands/hour to reach SNE.

I get called out as a bumhunter quite often because I am one of the few who speaks out what everyone else does anyway. Now that ZOOM runs and I enjoy playing it and it finally solves the bumhunting in 6max problem basically completely you guys come along saying its bad.

Why do you want regular tables instead of ZOOM anyway? What is the difference?

I just really hope Stars will allow more than 4 tables at once at ZOOM soon as well as 5/10 should be ZOOM only.

It isn't impossible to have both. What you are quickly seeing is that in a head to head showdown regular is losing. You seem to be on the losing side. If you think that being on the losing side gives you a leg up at the bargaining table, you are wrong. I've yet to see anyone come up with a better suggestion than making zoom and regular two different variants so it is no longer a head to head choice. And deep ante is the logical variant for zoom for many reasons.

As an anti-zoomer, you better rally your troops to a practical solution. I've offered one, I haven't seen anything offered from an anti-zoomer other than to beg PS to stop the spread of zoom.

+1, except I don't think allowing more than 4 entries is a good idea. We just need 5/10 to start running! (at first, then we can start thinking about 10/20 and 25/50).

i swear it was like three months ago someone posted saying "why does 1/2 zoom never run?" and now apparently its taking over the entire pokerstars plo player pool. are you guys (on both sides of the argument) sure you arent overreacting to it running a few days in a row?

Totally agree with this.

Obviously zoom has some negative points (fish has a lower VPIP but loses faster time wise, no real dynamics, ..) but at least it solves the problems insyder mentioned in his post.

But yeah, more than 4 entries would be a bad idea I think. Zoom has to stay fast and not "ZZZzzzZZzzz"

i never played zoom, but i have lots of prejudice (not sure if its the right word in english) w zoom. seems weird, rigged. how one game can be fair, where you still seated at other table, but then you are at another table?

my biggest problem w zoom, its because everyone will play better/more tight, fishs and regs included.

im doing good 24tabling plo midstakes, i dont want this tables stop running. its perfect.... why this need change ? its working perfect, why change?!?

about sne/vpps, im making around 1k vpp/hour at plo regular tables. i doubt i can make it at zoom...

I just dont like zoom cuz I cant win there, I dont get any hands, people have AAxx everyhand, U cant play alot of tables same time, 4 or whatever it is, everyone says there is so good value there still I see only regs, no one has over like 200bb, people win one pot leave and can comeback with starting stack again? Guess I am the value there

playing zoom now, very action ISH , people have showed me nutstriaght and AA 4bet preflop

latley ive been a 6max bumhunter, but im loving the zoom games.. no hassle, even playingfield for everybody,lotsa action, dont have to camp out the lobby, play whenever u want for how long u want, gets me some practice at 100bb again. vamo zoom!

I'm not totally sure yet if i'm in favor of high stakes being only offered as only zoom. I just didn't make up my mind yet. But i think i have a few pro's and cons that haven 't been mentioned. As i see it;

Against zoom only:
- not sure if all recreationals like and understand it
- less table dynamics
- everyone plays tighter
- one big fish will sustain multiple tables, so more reg only tables, so stars makes more rake from one fish and the pro's pay more rake.
- you need more players to start a pool
- all (except very small pools) tables are 6max, so we loose out 3 - 5 handed poker
- constant ratholing 50bb's allowed (or ratholing bigger stacks)
- less incentive to start a pool, because if a fish joins, everybody can join
- the very best players might enter 4 times in small pools, so they will be at every single table dealt (can also be a good thing in terms of sportmanship)
- observers have a harder time to follow the games
- sicko's playing a bazillion tables is no longer possible (oddsen vs pokerparty playing 20 shorthanded tables or example)
- detecting cheating is harder because you don't fallow any hands ones you fold. Also because handmining is close impossible.
- only 4 tables per limit allowed, if i pool is small like 30 persons, that's like 7 normal tables.

For zoom only:
- more hands/hour
- no more seat selecting/jezus seating
- no more table camping
- way harder to collude/card share
- no more grimming
- no more buttoning
- scripting (insta seating/waitlist seating) is worthless
- no more waitlist
- instant games, also allowes for short sessions
- 50bb min, so shortstaking is less exploitative (40bb to 50)
- instant (30 min max) breaks (1 hand, sitout)
- you can take as many breaks as you wish without loosing your tables
- great format for pokerstars mobile players
- hand mining is impossile (only 1 zoom table/limit visable), so ptr like sites will be gone, more privacy
- fish will feel a less predatory environment
- the pure (lesser skilled) bumhunters will be driven back to lower stakes, because they will have to compete with infinite regs that want to play
- all 6max, so easy to play
(Tnx to zhip above):
- no constant focus on lobby required
-even playing field
Feel free to add to the list if you have more...

when u say lots of action, exactly what do u meen with that???

now I am really tilted how do I block zoom 2 ever play it again

this only changed when they moved it to the main plo lobby

when i play live and people start talking about poker/gambling online at live table, people who don't play online, always say something like ''but online is diferent because... '' or ''isn't like live...''

so, i think online games should be close to live games, to looks more real, honest, etc. im sure zoom its real game, honest etc, but its big diference from live game, don't looks real game. someone who usually play live games, and go online, will think too diferent from standard games.

I think we should burn the zoom house to the ground

insyder, it´s pretty stupid to imply that tiltkorv or urubu are bumhunters, two of the true regs imo.

personally, i dont like zoom, not because of competition or smth, but because it doesnt feel right. i just dont enjoy it, and i always enjoyed online poker, but not this format. i like to do things i enjoy, and not being forced into some format i dont like.

i feel recs/casino fish will feel the same. this doesnt look like poker anymore. so i feel, eventually, since the 2/4 3/6 player pool is small, it will eventually dry out.