Hey,

this hand happened very early in match Villain joined, opened every button so far and 3bet 2 times already (first i fold pre, 2nd i fold to flop cbet)...



BB: $603 (100.5 bb)
Hero (SB): $671 (111.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4 K 3 T
Hero raises to $12, BB raises to $36, Hero calls $24

Flop: ($72) J Q 7 (2 players)
BB bets $54, Hero calls $54

Turn: ($180) 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($180) 2 (2 players)
BB bets $90, Hero raises to $450


I tanked the turn for a bit and end up checking. Given that i can´t rep a ton of hands and might get c/r + can bluff some rivers if its gets checked river again i decided to take the free card here and evaluate river.

Hard to say what to make of his betsize on river - doubt he is betting much more then flushes or bluffs (probably more flushes...

In game i though he has to give me credit for jamming here although i only rep nuts or probably 2nd nutz....but at the end it seems people hardly ever fold (besides bluffs) anything they bet for value using that sizing....

How spewy u think my river jam is....?
What u think about the turn...?
What u put villain on....given sizing...?

Im not super good or anything, but my thought is that he will be bluffing some with missed wraps, and you might get him to fold QJ?

raising so huge on river is really bad, if you are going to raise at all (which can be good/bad)

I'm much more inclined to raise here if I had bet the turn...
What do you call flop with and check back river when you add a flush draw?

You call the cbet, then pick up spades on the turn and check back? Tough sell.

That.

Also your risk reward is bad, you don't even have any blocker, and his line doesn't look like air often, which mean he will have a decision (when he doesn't have the nuts) with all his range, so it would really matter to know the player's mindset here. Have you shown huge somewhat thin raises or bluffs, have you shown checkback big draws...

I find this unlikely to be good, unless you basically never do it.

With an avg frequency I'd be more inclined to go for the simple 3 or 4x raise.

If you bet the turn he is faced with the dual threat of calling turn and river bets, so he will be hard pressed to continue most of the time. I think river is fine, but sizing is wayyyy too large and I'd prefer to have at least a blocker or something. could villian have been doing some variation of 'bet w/o check w/ outs' on the turn? ud think OOP he would just continue to barrel unless u were playing tight / tricky post

Interesting hand. I agree with CZI about hard to sell that you picked up spades and checkbacked( since you obv had to pick up big spades). I guess this all depends on how often he cr big hands on the turn and how often he keeps betting once he picked up spades himself. I do think that this might work, but thats prop cause i dont the he has anything that could call you - so i obv think the raise size is bad. The decision on the turn obv depends on the above. I think the river bet is something that is designed to take you away from your percived weak range, think that he would try to checkcall if he was trying to craise the turn. I think you would be more likely to bet air on the river than to call that 90 bet.

what do the good plo hu guys think about the call pf

The thing is:

I don´t think we will get a lot of folds on turn but will face a c/r or at least a c/c with a high frquency - so i don´t think he has a big enough c/f range on turn + i don´t really rep a lot of MH that can b/c but a lot of floats.

That said i would check back a lot on that turn to realise my equity...don´t feel i am forced to bet everytime on turn when its get checked to me no matter how blankish turn is - so i´ll add that hand to my check back range.

Given what you guys wrote it seems my perceived range is the opposite of what i am repping on river because you guys would bet all/most fd´s on turn. Given these assumptions my riverR is obv spewy. Didn´t realise that i am the only one that is giving myself credit for repping flush given how i played

def agree on not stabbing turn

i mean ... come up w/ one hand that does not have a significant draw or an overpair on this kind of board structure (and i dont think hes just going to c/f TPs/OPs)

Thing is, if we cant count on taking it down a fair bit once he checks turn we probably should just fold the flop.

looks like a flop fold to me. its close tho, and I would call if I had backdoor clubs.

someone asked about the preflop call; 100bb stacks, 2x - > 6x means Im calling all 3bets

Yeah, only way I like it is if you're sick enough to value shove a thi flush on the river and he knows it. I can buy checking back the river with a fd but rarely a big enough fd that you can get credit for value shoving river. (ie most flushes you can value raise here you are betting the turn with and small flush draws you may be checking back you may not shove on riv)

Wouldn't a flop raise(fold to a shove) be better than a fold?

No, why would you want to do that?

Raise/folding flop is prob the worst way to play this hand

hmmm. not sure about this. seems like if we have r/f range here at all, thatll be the kind of hand that is in it.

Uh, why? If you're raise folding why do you want to put at least 25% of your stack in and fold w an oesd? If you're going to raise fold I'd rather do it w like q456 or something, but I don't advocate that v much 100bb deep either

Esp when he's prob shoving a good amt of his 3b range on this flop. Obv your equity isn't v good v his shoving range but he's shoving too much 100bbs deep to raise/fold very much if at all here IMO. I'm certainly not advocating raise/call, I just don't really like raising.

As I said, we might not have a bluffing range on this board. Thats not unreasonable ofc. If he is one to b/f dry aces I feel like r/f this hand is not that bad as we have a lil blocker value and some equity in the rare case he flats.

Thanks for ur answers guy. Don´t like my raise anymore esp. the sizing. Was interessting to here different opinions regards turn check back range....

gl. tizzl

Given the turn action isn't Hero more likely to have the flush draw here than villain? In Villain's spot I'd bet most flush draws on the turn.

This ^

The prob with the size is that u rep nutflush and no notflushdraw that calls the flop checks back turn... If ure raise is to like 220 or something its much more credible...