lol def not better then ptr

Cbt; it's terrible. The way you defend like it's no big deal is worse...

Why would it be? Because you see incomplete results of others?
Or are you going to abuse someone with the info of a player having 28vpip sorted by 2-6 players?

I'm not defending it, I just see it as something that could be of entertainment value at best.

I didn't want to reply regarding this since it's a rake related thread, but since you made millions I'm kinda curious on your arguments why it would be so 'terrible'?

get educated, sharkscope is not the same at all as its an opt in system not opt out.

You don't know the arguments as to why tracking sites are bad for everybody? I'll spell out the basic ones. You don't have to agree with them, but here they are:

1. For rec players, it's embarrassing for their results to be displayed publically.
2. For pros, they just lead to an increased level of bumhunting -> much less action for everyone.

If you think bumhunting is good for the game, you have your priorities wrong, as I alluded to earlier.

Oh well it was different some time ago I believe and I'm not rly playing donkaments, so forgive me for not being educated :/.

Disagree. It's still all anonymous, why would they care if their 'randomclown98816' account shows losses?

Bumhunting is a fair argument, alltho I think it's more a problem @ hu.

I'm not saying that a tracking site is ever good for the game, obv it's bad
but there's too much hysteria about it while seating scripts are allowed and way worse.

Duno maybe some HU guys can comment on how stuff improved or not for them after PTR was gone.

Yeah actually I agree to a certain extent, but still I think my results are mine and mine alone and should be private, unless I choose to share them.

I'd had a bad day and prob came across a bit strong, sorry. But these sites do piss me off...

Pretty sure I once saw someone on there with 36BB/100 plo winrate over 100k hands or something. Pretty sure it's only 70% accurate which may as well be 0% accurate in some cases. Just sayin.

This is really sick and why I seemed to win more in PLO the higher I moved up. I pretty much figured the rake was taking all the money at 1/2 and below and made sure I was playing at least 2/4 right out of the gate. Of course even at 2/4 the rake is still enormous.

Depends on the rake, but yeh 1/2 PLO live the rake is going to be very steep. But thats true for 1/2 NL as well.

But whats happening here happens in California casinos in limit poker as well. Nobody can really win below 20/40 limit hold'em live because of the rake, so all the money in the small stakes live economy just goes to the house, not to the higher stakes games.

sure i play and win in games with 15€ rake cap, but i can only speak for me, not sure if Galfond or you could win there too.

cliffs?

There are no plo 12/510 or 10/25 - 25/50 c omaha winner?

What about 50/1 and higher.

would be nice to know.

Which low limit has the best rake strukture?

the rake won't hit you too hard at 100/200 full ring

god come on.

5 10 or 10 25 c better, why?

25/50 c or 50/1 - why?

50/1 or 1/2 - why?

Would be really helpfull to know.
By the way, it makes no sense to have a lot higher rake when the equitys are similiar.
Where is the sanity in this?

Why should your winrate be higher here? It is difficult to get an big equity advantage??

Because they have the monopoly, and rather than not play, we can't help ourselves...

5 10 or 10 25 c better, why?

25/50 c or 50/1 - why?

50/1 or 1/2 - why?

nict would be to know this.
i mean obviously 25/50 CENTS:

all those limits are beatable for a good player. the problem is that instead of say 25 percent of players being at least marginal winners it's more like 10-15%... maybe a lot less.

i just made those numbers up, but the point is many less players can move up stakes by grinding small stakes than should be able to. instead of having a robust and diverse midstakes player pool, a lot of people plod away at the micros, breaking even and paying an assload of rake. this makes small stakes and midstakes games much tougher than they would be with a "fairer" system.

PLO10 with antes is the nuts rakebackwise (among the microstakes, where SNE is unrealistic) as it's essentially PLO18 but still with 7 VPPs per $1 of rake , so SupN requires 400K-600K hands a year there and is definitely doable without moving up (I'm a nit with 0.18 VPP/hand, so for me it would take 560K hands, on the higher end), returns about 50% of rake due to the higher VPP/$ rate (in the second or further year), so, with 4.25% base rake, is equivalent to a 57.5% deal on a network with 5% base rake.

The only problem is that sometimes there are only a couple of tables going. Plus it's often a (relative) regfest, with merely 2 recreationals per table. And for first-world residents, the money made there is insufficient.

so, plo100 was a mop up to 3rd of the mass or so grinders, while plo200 seems to be only little profitable with rb to 3rd also. not bad. though games getting further tougher one level, the best plo100 player might just break even w rb, and thats when plo is dead, in about couple of years.

if you've been playing plo for years and you're still at plo100 then plo is dead to you anyway. If you're not making enough $ and don't feel you'll be able to move up or improve to the point that you can make enough then change games or change careers.

It almost seems everyone that plays is the fish - but variance keeps people around for another deposit.

484k hands at 10PLO, 25 PLO, 50PLO Stars only.
paying so much rake its makes me wanna quit poker. They really need to lower the rake at PLO games, the only winners in the long run will be just a few strong regulars while the rest of money goes to stars. They need to change the rake structrure in order for micro and low stakes to be profitable enough and worth playing.

You played nearly 500k hands at ~$4/hr?! That rips my brain in every direction at the same time. And yes, lowering rake at micro and ssplo would help everyone (including PS) tremendously. Unfortunately they have idiots running their company and it is such a good business for them idiots can turn a profit. They don't really care about maximizing overall profits. They are like farmers who grow crop after crop until they have turned their land into a barren desert instead of letting the soil rest every now and then to keep usable forever. 2014 and they are still giving incentives to grind more lol. Shows how closed minded they are to years of reason and logic from experts explaining why their system is bad. They think everyone is just whining for personal gain. Congratulations though on your hard work and hopefully are beating profitable stakes soon :-)

well with bonuses from their vpp system is a bit more but still as you said its feeling like working for someone else where they get most of the money. its really hard for me to step up in stakes because of bankroll issues as i need to keep cashing out to pay rent and bills.