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NEED HELP! Deep Stack PLO Hand History NEED HELP! Deep Stack PLO Hand History

08-03-2023 , 05:58 PM
I would love any and all feedback on this hand history. I'm not sure what adjustments should be made playing extremely deep.

App game. .75/1.50/3 PLO. 5 handed atm.

My hand AdAcJc5h

1 limp. I iso on the button to 14. 3rd blind 3! to 48. Limper folds. I call.

Flop Qd7d2s Pot 101 Effective stacks 1168

Player bets 67. I call.

Turn 2h Pot 235 Effective stacks 1100

Player bets 148. I call.

Villian is a solid, aggressive reg.

Are all AAxx combos 4bets pre or is there more flatting the deeper we are?
Flop call seems better than raise imo but would love counter arguments.
Turn seems like a way ahead way behind spot so I elected to flat but should I have raised now that I'm ahead of most of range?
Is me having the A of diamonds relevant?
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08-04-2023 , 12:39 AM
Screenshots of HH.




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08-04-2023 , 01:27 AM
4b is fine but this deep I don’t mind the flat for deception. Not turning our hand face up is beneficial in these spots imho.

Flat flop, flat turn, most rivers (even diamonds) are getting checked to us unless bluff or QQ/77 imho.

KK w/ diamonds is the most obvious hand for villain.
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08-04-2023 , 03:30 AM
Think 4! pre is better.

Agree with call flop and call turn as played.
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08-04-2023 , 08:00 AM
Raising turn is bad. There aren't that many worse hands that will put a lot more money in. KK or a q without a flush draw unlikely to pile money in. And there aren't that many likely combos of pair plus flush draw because of A of diamonds in your hand. And if you get shoved on you are just going to want puke.

Your hand is underepped. Calling keeps in his bluffs as well as his kk and top pair that he thinks he is betting for value/protection.
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08-04-2023 , 03:20 PM
Ya raising turn is terrible when his range is either hands that crush you or hands you're ahead of. Given how deep you are and hes OOP I would think he has a very narrow 3b range here, but you're only losing to QQ and maybe the odd 77 here and there. We'd prefer not to have the Ad but what can you do - either way just call the turn as you're very high in your range here and he has few value combos you're behind to.
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08-04-2023 , 03:24 PM
Preflop - calling is fine, can mix it up. I wouldn't pure raise AAJ5ss at 400bb personally as it's good to make sure your 4! range isn't too aces heavy when deep.

Postflop - as everyone else stated, no reason to raise the turn. I think the main interesting thing is what you should do if diamonds blank and villain pots river.
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08-04-2023 , 04:26 PM
Us giving you feedback and theory is not predicated on you telling the truth about the hand having happened, so you don't need to include the screenshots. It could be a fabricated hand and if we don't know that to be the case we'd probably still discuss it and then not care if you told us it was all a lie as if in some big reveal.

I vastly prefer a flat preflop here even when we're working in a bunch of other 4bets, which not only do many not do, many opponents do not expect us to either. So we're getting in a bunch of money repping exactly the hand we have without as much flop coverage. By flatting, we get to play a decent size pot in position with a hand that he's trying to rep, i.e. if it comes A-high there's a significant chance of him putting his whole stack in drawing thin. No, not all AAxx combos are 4bs pre, we should possibly elect to 4b all our ds combos, but again I'd like reason to have my opponent believe I'm 4betting light.

Flop is an easy call on this disconnected board and with your A diamonds blocker which is hugely valuable. Still possibly a call without it. Turn raise would be pretty bad. What was the river please?
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08-05-2023 , 02:27 AM
Thanks for the feedback.

The screenshots weren't for proof. I just know some people are more visual and find it easier to follow than my text. More likely for me to get feedback.

In game I thought these aces were a little to weak to 4!. Being this deep, if I 4! and he calls the SPR is still ~3.5. And I'll be putting a lot of blinds in on a lot of boards with a one pair holding.

River was the 4d. River went x/x and villian wins at showdown with KQJTddd.
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08-05-2023 , 07:56 AM
A little diversion, if we have nut diamonds how often should we be bet/folding river given villains line?

Obviously it can be pretty player dependent, a tough opponent can turn his Qx into a bluff reasonably often, in that case how often should we be bet calling?

Yes I know sometimes we will eat a QQ sandwich, but discuss.

Should we only bet/call if we have a Q in our hand? Should we only bet if we have a Q in our hand?

If we do bet, should we just go for close to pot to discourage bluff jams?

If we have a Q in our hand and NF, should we bet small to induce a shove?

Sorry a bit of a hijack.
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08-05-2023 , 09:52 AM
Four bet pre. As played fold the flop.
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08-05-2023 , 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklymydearirais
Four bet pre. As played fold the flop.
I think an argument can be made to fold the flop without the Ad, but with Ad no way.
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08-05-2023 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklymydearirais
Four bet pre. As played fold the flop.
Not sure if srs
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08-05-2023 , 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz

Flop is an easy call on this disconnected board and with your A diamonds blocker which is hugely valuable. Still possibly a call without it. Turn raise would be pretty bad. What was the river please?
Is it not the opposite? We don't actually want the A of diamond here. Yes its nut blocker, but if he leads on flop it shows he's not betting nutted diamonds thus meaning he leans into QQ/77 slightly more? Possible KK with diamonds.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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08-05-2023 , 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixedgamelover
Is it not the opposite? We don't actually want the A of diamond here. Yes its nut blocker, but if he leads on flop it shows he's not betting nutted diamonds thus meaning he leans into QQ/77 slightly more? Possible KK with diamonds.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Not exactly.

Having the Ad is not a negative. And hero has a sliver more of equity than if he had other A.

But it is relevant in decisions where blockers are very important on any given streets. Such as if on x - bet - xr on flop. Or when flushes come in on the river.

And it also allows Hero to turn his hand into a bluff and represent flushes some time - for example maybe we bluff the other aa off a chop or fold out a smaller flush or live flush draw under heavy pressure.

balancing A blockers vs actually nut draws / nut flushes is very important, that is why Hero should typically call flop and turn here when his hand is strong enough to sometimes raise. And to protect many weaker hands in range.

Villain can range bet this texture (flop and turn) pretty agressively though given pf action AND should value bet many worse hands so Ad isn't that important yet.

Last edited by monikrazy; 08-05-2023 at 09:55 PM.
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08-06-2023 , 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixedgamelover
Is it not the opposite? We don't actually want the A of diamond here. Yes its nut blocker, but if he leads on flop it shows he's not betting nutted diamonds thus meaning he leans into QQ/77 slightly more? Possible KK with diamonds.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
It's a HU 3b pot - his continuing range is going to be somewhat wide. There's also not that many 77/22 combos that he would 3b with - if this was say a 4 way pot yes this all changes dramatically, but HU is different.
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