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Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session

11-29-2024 , 12:20 PM
yo ... who (also) does that, and how can i change it?

i obv. know it's wrong, but after decades of playing i still catch myself doing it from time to time, like for example that call with bad pot odds when being down to get back to even etc.

but what annoys me even more is, when i see i tighten up after being up a considerable amount during a session bc i don't wanna risk loosing those winnings again. in a recent session that actually cost me a big amount, bc i only called a bet on turn knowing my opponent was on a draw instead of pushing him out with top set (he would have folded, bc his draw was actually very weak), but i decided to play it "safe"

i read all the books, i know it's all just one long session ... bla bla ... yadda yadda ... but i still do it sometimes.
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-29-2024 , 12:48 PM
in a vacuum, we're supposed to play every hand for the maximum ev. in practice, when we account for real human fallibilities, we can't hold ourself to that standard.

while variance accounts for most of our results, especially live, our skill can still have a strong input, so it's natural to conclude after firing 3 great bluffs that got called that we're playing bad, and so to be a bit more careful. the fact that our bluffs all got called suggests they weren't as good as we might think. when in doubt about how well we're playing it pays to be over rather than under-cautious.

conversely, if we can see we're playing well, we should be prone to pick up on those fine instincts. these are both valid responses to being up or down.

what's less valid is to look at how much we're winning or losing and allow that to affect our mindset. being down 9 buyins doesn't mean we're now playing to turn that 1 buyin back into 10. make a point of noticing when you do either of those things, and remind yourself of the correct attitude.

i prefer to consciously moderate my playing style according to stack size and table conditions. if i feel an impulse to make a tight fold or loose call based on whether i'm winning or losing, i immediately question that and get back to what i consider the better play in a vacuum.

in the longer run, if you can feel you're not playing great in general, or are more prone to tilt, it pays to lock down a little - tighten up, take far fewer high variance spots, etc.
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-29-2024 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player
for example that call with bad pot odds when being down to get back to even etc.
Sir, that is called "tilt".
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-29-2024 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
Sir, that is called "tilt".
i like how we play good cop bad cop sometimes
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-29-2024 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz
in a vacuum, we're supposed to play every hand for the maximum ev. in practice, when we account for real human fallibilities, we can't hold ourself to that standard.

while variance accounts for most of our results, especially live, our skill can still have a strong input, so it's natural to conclude after firing 3 great bluffs that got called that we're playing bad, and so to be a bit more careful. the fact that our bluffs all got called suggests they weren't as good as we might think. when in doubt about how well we're playing it pays to be over rather than under-cautious.

conversely, if we can see we're playing well, we should be prone to pick up on those fine instincts. these are both valid responses to being up or down.

what's less valid is to look at how much we're winning or losing and allow that to affect our mindset. being down 9 buyins doesn't mean we're now playing to turn that 1 buyin back into 10. make a point of noticing when you do either of those things, and remind yourself of the correct attitude.

i prefer to consciously moderate my playing style according to stack size and table conditions. if i feel an impulse to make a tight fold or loose call based on whether i'm winning or losing, i immediately question that and get back to what i consider the better play in a vacuum.

in the longer run, if you can feel you're not playing great in general, or are more prone to tilt, it pays to lock down a little - tighten up, take far fewer high variance spots, etc.
Good points, thx for that

Few remarks:
I actually do realize when it happens (which I consider a good thing), but then sometimes I do it anyways… which is what pisses me off.
I mean, we are not talking about huge blunders here, I’m a winning player for a long time now, but games are getting harder, people are getting better, so every small edge counts obviously

Also:
I worked a lot on the mental side of the game, so being up or down in a session should be really irrelevant… but of course I’m aware of it, and when I do a session review I see it influences me (not a lot, as I said, no big blunders) but definitely measurable
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-29-2024 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
Sir, that is called "tilt".
Naa, not really, see other post, it’s really small errors
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-29-2024 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player
Naa, not really, see other post, it’s really small errors
well, tilt means any deviation from your a-game for psychological reasons, so anytime you're making -ev plays to chase losses, that's tilt
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-30-2024 , 06:48 AM
Indeed, I would call any deviation from a normal game "tilt". Maybe this new definition will stop you doing that, whatever you want to call it.
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-30-2024 , 08:54 AM
hmm ... ok, i get what you are all saying, and i don't wanna get into a fruitless argument again, especially since i think we all mean the same thing.

therefore, let me just clarify, i guess my definition is just somewhat different (or, adjustable, to put it in better words):

say, there is a hand, you need 30% pot odds to make a correct call, there is no money behind, so also no implied odds ... but you only have 28%.
Me making that call, i wouldn't call it "tilt", bc it's just a small mistake (if even), could also be correct, bc obviously we don't have all the information, we make it based on an assumption.
real tilt is when you throw everything out of the window what you learned about the game and make decisions based on your mood or out of pure anger or whatever, but not an game theory, say the uber tight reg 4bets pre with what is aces like 99% of the times and you call with ss bad kings bc you are just pissed and dont give a f*** anymore.
but writing this is also realize, that might be a language thing, bc in german the word "tilt" has definitely way more negative connotations, so you guys might still be technically correct within the english language.
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-30-2024 , 10:46 AM
What you describe is either a mistake (if it's your A-game) or tilt (if you do it because of your emotions).

Judging from your explanation of tilt I also presume you either have or have had massive issues with tilting.
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-30-2024 , 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
What you describe is either a mistake (if it's your A-game) or tilt (if you do it because of your emotions).

Judging from your explanation of tilt I also presume you either have or have had massive issues with tilting.
a reasonable conclusion
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-30-2024 , 02:56 PM
So you would not differentiate based on the “smallness/bigness” (if that is a word) of the mistake?? Interesting…
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-30-2024 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
What you describe is either a mistake (if it's your A-game) or tilt (if you do it because of your emotions).

Judging from your explanation of tilt I also presume you either have or have had massive issues with tilting.
PS: I had, yes, but don’t have anymore.
I would like to know though (if you wanna share) what in my explanation led you to that conclusion?
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote
11-30-2024 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player
So you would not differentiate based on the “smallness/bigness” (if that is a word) of the mistake?? Interesting…
I mean of course a big mistake is worse, but there is no reason to knowingly make a small mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player
PS: I had, yes, but don’t have anymore.
I would like to know though (if you wanna share) what in my explanation led you to that conclusion?
Well, what you described is total monkey tilt. I've never experienced that really.
Mindset II: Change of playing style dep. on being up or down in a session Quote

      
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