Those are just super simple bastardazations of not taking card removal into consideration.

Oh adding that extra player makes a huge difference. 3-way poker on the flop plays closer to 2-way poker, but add another player then 4-way poker plays more like 6-way poker. You need to reduce your c-betting a lot more than your example of 60% down to 50%....to like 25%.

Why do you think that is? I always thought you'd rather have Q9ccJ8 than QJcc98. Wonder if you let the sim run long enough the 2 hands would become closer in EV.

I would imagine that as you get lower in flush, the value of unblocking the next flush down goes down, and thus the solver decides that the value of a straight flush is worth more than being able to pip your opponent around the QJcc vs Q9cc mark. Being able to make a royal with AKcc is pretty useless as it's difficult to get paid unless it's a paired board and we block the likeliest hand to beat us, and AKcc makes the same number of straight flushes as ATcc, but QJcc can make 3 different straight flushes, and coolering someone with a Q-high flush isn't often enough a thing. Presumably this becomes more pronounced as stacks get deeper.

Rake in poker is a ****ing nightmare.

In the games I play the size of the pot at the beginning of play on the flop has not reached the rake cap yet, therefore it is still getting raked as much as possible. If you are the villain here and bet your AAxx and everyone folds, then all you did was win a pot that got rake the highest percentage possible. Talking about things that are excessively high, AAxx is the huge favorite to win this hand, it is easy to delay cbetting until the turn and let someone else improve their losing hand to an even better losing hand that they are now willing to payoff and boom you now have a pot higher than the rake cap and you are now paying a lower percentage rake.

Flophero has SB pure checking AA here, and if I understand it right, the overall strategy for SB is 76.6% check, 12.1% B50%, 10.3% B100. It is betting a lot of Aces, especially with a pair (AKKQ-2ds are all pure bets except AKK8. The bets are a mix of B50 and B100). The aces have a fair amount of mixing here. Quickly navigating around, but any hand villain has that has an 8 in it but without an Ace seems to be pure betting and usually mixing B50 and B100.

Hero is pure jamming behind with QJ98, as I'd expect., but also likely due to the discounting of AA in SB range.

Is that 4 ways? Those bet sizes are kind of silly, if you give it a smaller bet size(25% or 33%) it will c-bet a lot more.

Yes 4 ways, and no ability to give it a smaller size that I can see, but that definitely makes sense.

Are you looking at monkersolver or another site?

Villain bet pot.

PLOtrainer for 3 ways uses a 1/3 bet sizing. Would be interested to hear from Flophero why they use those sizings. The thing about the solver is if you give it 5 sizings, it will use all 5 some % of the time. It would be impossible for humans to implement such a complex strategy. Even having 2 sizings is probably too much since the EV difference of having multiple sizings isn't that big.

NO

YES. You out of context much?

In 6-max poker, if you had a 2 player on the flop strategy and a 4 player on the flop strategy and had to figure out which way the wind blows for how to play 3 players on the flop, then 3 players on the flop would lean more towards being a hybrid of 2 players on the flop than 4 players on the flop. But this hand was not even 3 handed. The context of my reply to CardiffGiant was that the sim info he gathered 3 handed on the flop of 1/3 pot sizing to cbet 60% of the time would go down greater than the around cbet 50% of the time he was guessing when you added another player. Going from 3 players on flop to 4 players on flop is more impactful to your cbetting % than going from 2 players on flop to 3 players on flop.

Good luck in the future cbetting at a high percentage into 3+ opponents the flop.

Please stop giving bad advice, i am referring to the part i bolded if you cant read, thanks

And I asked if you have a problem with context or reading. I guess we all got the answer.

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Belthazorrrrr, if you can't follow along tha crap is on you.

PLEASE STOP GIVING BAD ADVICE

3way poker is playing a lot closer to 4way poker than 2way

PLEASE

THANKS!

We have enjoyed your limited contribution to this thread. If that one statement is your take away from this entire thread and you are now in CAPS posting mode, then butthurt ointment can be found in aisle 6 at Walmart.

ok

hu on A77 sb range bet for 1/3
3way on A77 sb bet 62% (drops 100-62=38%)
4 way on A77 sb will need to bet less 24% in order for 3way to be more similar to hu than 4way which isnt happening

if you ever did the most basic work with equities (not even solver work you will understand why) but in case you didnt, let me enlighten you

hu 4% vs 20% ranges equity for 3bettor 62%
3way 4% vs 20% vs 10% equity for 3bettor 42%
4way 4% vs 20% vs 10% vs 10% equity for 3bettor 32%

you will ALWAYS see the biggest slash in equities going from hu to 3 way, than going from 3way to 4way, 4way to 5way etc

now stop giving bad advice

PLEASE

THANKS!

Now you've switched to equity instead of cbetting frequency. And you are still using a 1/3 bet size even though it has been pointed out that the Villain bet POT.

If you are this butthurt and you don't feel like going to Walmart for the ointment, then we can create you a new thread in which the Villain bet 1/3 pot instead of POT and without me mentioning needing to tone down the cbetting frequency with more players still in hand.

at that point i assume you either trolling or you are dumb, i assume the later and i will stop responding, go on, you are free to give your bad advice, PLEASE, THANKS!

If the butthurt is extremely painful I suggest using a pillow between you and the car driver seat on the way to Walmart for the ointment.

Kind of difficult to get enthusiastic about threads when you guys are being 13 years old if half of them.

Cheers.

This. It isn't an apples to apples comparison if one person is only talking about using a 1/3 bet sizing (which the Villain did not use) and someone else like the Villain bet full pot and not only that since Villain bet full pot, the villain might have a second bet sizing too...read below.

* replace 1/2 pot bet size with 1/3 bet size if it makes you feel better when reading below.

I know players that against one opponent they will use a 1/2 pot cbet bet sizing. And against two opponents they will still use that 1/2 pot cbet sizing. But, against three or more opponents they start to use a 1/2 pot cbet sizing AND a full pot cbet sizing. Against three or more opponent the game changes drastically and they need that extra powerful additional cbet sizing added to the mix. Being up against two opponents plays more like being up against one opponent than being up against three opponents. That was the context I was trying to get along. It isn't linear percentages when one bet sizing all of sudden becomes two bet sizing. For the sake of belthazorrrrr butt health, if I had a hot tub time machine, I would go back in time and edit my post to better get that point across so we wouldn't have had to watch belthazorrrrr lose his crap in this thread.

In multiway pots of 3 or more players, all the GTO solvers usually try to use the smaller bet sizings available. If you give the solver the option to use a 20% and 33% as bet sizes on the flop, the solution probably takes that 1/5 line a higher percentage of the time than 1/3, specially when you are OOP against several opponents.

We are going to release soon more detailed strategies for all the 2 and 3 player most common spots, allowing 4-5 different bet sizes for each street. 4-way pots doesn't occur very often and as others pointed, probably 2 bet sizes are enough in real life. No other solver gives you more than 3-player postflop solutions btw.

In the hand example, FlopHero recommends folding preflop without open raising in a high rake enviroment and if you open a similar hand, folding against the 3bet. The cost of having a dominated hand versus 2 players that have position on you is too much to overcome. Unless you have specific reads on the SB or the other players being whales, fold pre.