Villain 1 opens EP to 150, villain 2 3bets from CO to 450. Folds to me in the SB with AA87r.

I have 8.5k, both villains cover. They are both strong, winning players. I have a nitty image. Is there a profitable way to play the hand?

My thoughts are that if I pot 4b and villain 2 calls, I set up a poor SPR of just over 2 (pot of ~3300 with ~7k behind) and allow him to play perfectly against me with a face up hand that does not flop well. Sometimes villain 1 will call also, but that still leaves an awkward SPR 3-way.

Cold calling intuitively seems unprofitable, since I don't think I have sufficient implied odds to set mine, and it will be difficult to continue otherwise. Thoughts?

I think you can wait for a better opportunity to get it in

How often are you cold calling the 3bet without AAxx? If it is likely that your opponents will be able to put you on this hand with just the cold call, then raising > calling, as it reduces SPR. Also, if you do raise and get called in two places, you have to widen you continuing range to include uncoordinated flops.

You need a better read on your villains as well. 'Strong, winning players' isn't enough. How often do they call 4bets? What do they do in bloated pots, are they more aggressive? Depending on these answers, it will depend on whether this is a good spot. As for the quality of the AA, I agree that if you are giving away too much info by both the call and the raise, then wait for a better spot.

/\ Agreed, is 3bettor on a wide or tight range here? Rough idea of what hands he'd do that with? What's UTG's 3x range like?

I like 4betting most of the time, 3bettor should be on a value range (which we dominate more than usual ranges) if he's 3betting another reg's EP open since if he's smart he should flat a lot of hands to invite fishes in. Moreover, AA87 specifically hits a lot of the boards that suck at an spr of 1.5-2.5 when you 4bet a narrow range.

I can see reasons to fold, if you can't rebuy or rebuy this deep, etc. etc., but I think as far as EV goes this is a 4bet.

If you 4bet your going to get called no matter what in this spot. And I'm guessing 90% of the flops your opponent is going to lead right into you unless you hit a miracle flop of 2-2-7 or some rainbow paired board below 10's and you can't call

Find a better spot.

how can you sleep after folding AAxx pre against a single 3bet?

Cause urubu, he is up against two solid players who both call his raise and prolly eat his lunch up when the flop comes out.

Not to get too technical, but wouldn't expect two villains to lead into us when we have aces in the small blind.

I'd be expected to cold call strong rundowns, so I keep my perceived range wider by flatting compared to 4betting. I expect villain 2 to call the 4bet 100% of the time, and to be very aggressive in a bloated pot.

I haven't played enough with villain 2 to know what type of hands he'd 3bet villain 1 with, but I expect him to have a wide range rather than a tight one. UTG's 3x range is roughly ~20% of hands I think (this is his default open size).

A sense of inner peace...and a few glasses of shiraz.

Call has to be profitable, because you have to aces to (very credibly with preflop line) rep a nut flush with if it comes and offcourse the 449 kind of flops. The question is, will 4bet ev>call or not. I think i'm calling here, unless both ranges are quite tight (and have a lot of dominated hands).

My instinct is Call>4b>Fold. A nice thing about cold calling is your perceived range consists mostly of rundowns so your hand is very disguised. You're not just calling for set-odds, you can c/shove on good flops after you see their action, etc. Only argument for folding > call/4b is that some flop decisions will be really tough.

rack up and quit if you think playing AA78 preflop is unprofitable

In this situation it is.

This hand is definitely a dog with these stacks, that's why if you're gonna sit there and nit it up you gotta be shorter.

If you pot pre your hand is transparent since you're a nit. Don't be a nit by the way.


I smooth call the $450. I think other villian will also just call the $450. I check EVERY flop. Villian 2 has control of the pot, so odds are flop will be checked to him by other villian as well. If Villian 2 is solid then more than often he will bet no matter what on the flop (with control and checks to him). You have unbelievalble strength to POT any bet that this villian bets on the flop. Extremely profitable move for bluffs with your nitty image and it shows you don't give a F*** about the other villian... SO strong. It's like saying come play at me, I dare you..... I pot any bet he makes on nearly all flops (unless it comes like KQ9, 89T or some **** like that). You have a nit image and you put a ridiculous amount of pressure on the villian to fold any hand that isn't SUPER strong. If he has a SUPER strong hand or the other villian shows up with something, then so be it, it's a profitable move in the long run.

if you want to play like that, better pot4bet get it in on all flops. cant be worse...

They call preflop and fold a lot of times to make it profitable on flop. It's a very aggressive (high variance) move that will get picked off from time to time, but I think it has decent equity in the long run. Plus the times where the flop comes 22x or any low pair with any non king card, villain who repopped to 450 will rep aces and try to take it down and you will beat him. Or very rarely an ace comes, smooth call the villains bet and pretend your own a draw and let him think you think he's got aces... Draw hits u bet big, draw misses u check and trap the **** out of him. Sorry for rambled thoughts. I can't believe anyone thinks folding here is best though, wtf.

i don´t think folding is best pre, i´d like a cold call, given described images and situation. i just don´t agree that you should c/jam almost all flops blindly and way overplay your hand with one villain behind you that probably checks his whole value/board smashing range, expecting a bet from V1 and a you´d be sandwiched. this is soo high variance that you´d be better of 4betting/getting it in on all flops since you cant make such a huge mistake than it is possible if you choose your line.

i think the best is to call and evaluate. you have still playability, e.g. blocker potential, left in your hand and are not commited yet to play for stacks.

Would your plan include leading some flush draw flops that we have the nut blocker to, like T52hhx, Q63hhx etc, or is it better to c/c multiple streets to induce bluffs with our hand and lead if the flush completes?

Some really bad advice in this thread.

Well your advice was to fold (which is -ev) to wait for a better spot

livepokerlol

No where did I say fold per, I just stated I would not 4 bet this hand pre.

.

.

I prefer c-c those flops.