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12-10-2014 , 06:48 AM
Hello all, long time lurker, first time hand poster .

I play almost only PLO MTT, and a bit of cash from time to time.

Here we are 3-handed in the Omania 20€ PLO MTT on pokerstars.fr with 91 entrants.

BTN has been tight since 12 left, playing 24/10/0, but opened up and more LAG from 4 left.

SB has been more aggro and swingy at around 35/15/6.

Both are solid winning players.

My image is most likely quite tight, around the same stats as BTN.

My main question here is regarding ICM so pay jumps are important:

1. 460€
2. 310€
3. 240€

    Poker Stars, $18 Buy-in (6,000/12,000 blinds) Pot Limit Omaha Tournament, 3 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #33275721

    SB: 103,038 (8.6 bb)
    Hero (BB): 361,824 (30.2 bb)
    BTN: 475,138 (39.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 7 K K J
    BTN raises to 42,000, SB folds, Hero calls 30,000

    Flop: (90,000) K 8 A (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets 90,000




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    I don't like to 3bet preflop here for ICM reasons - is this OK? 3-bet folding would be horrible and I would not be happy 3bet calling.

    Flop I hit 2nd set and check with the initial idea of check-raising. Villain bets pot which he has never done before. Previously his sizings have been much more standard.

    I had trouble assessing his hand here:

    1. made hand, doesn't want to see turn/river - I suppose I crush 88, AK, A8 that he may play like this, and am crushed by AA.

    2. big draw like TJQKhh (or weaker draws too) that wants to bully me seeing as I should fold almost my whole range for ICM reasons.

    As a result I was a bit lost as to what to do facing this pot bet. I enviseaged folding (far too weak, even with shorty??), calling to then donk shove any safe turn, and CRAI. I think if SB has a stack like ours in 20-40BB range it's a no brainer check-raise shove but I was unsure if that was OK here for ICM reasons. Essentially we'll v often be flipping for first place, so a 220€ flip, and giving a ****load of equity to the SB.

    Thanks for any input on this.

    Last edited by ILoveLamp.; 12-10-2014 at 06:55 AM.
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    12-10-2014 , 08:13 AM
    Villain bet POT both before and on the flop.

    Judging by his stats, villain is kind of nitty and probably aware of the ICM situation.

    I may be wrong here, but I don´t think he would do this with a flush draw given stack sizes.

    So basically it comes down to us crushing (vs AK mostly, don´t think he would do this with A8, K8), being close enough to flipping (AK with hearts, getting it in has to be a massive mistake) or being crushed (vs AA).

    I would strongly consider folding this. Then again, it might have been better to lead out on the flop. Seeing him react to this might have given us some valuable information.
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    12-10-2014 , 08:32 AM
    I'm playing for first here, which will pretty much always happen if I take out BTN. The difference between 3rd and 2nd actually seems kind of flat... only 70 euro.

    Definitely potting preflop. I'm happy with the re steal. If he is usually min raising but then suddenly pts though then alarm bells might go off.

    Flop I just GII. It;s a shame you pretty much dead though vs AA.
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    12-10-2014 , 08:43 AM
    Thanks for the replies.

    You are probably right mumpf regarding the hearts, especially as i have Kh. So it's really a WA/WB situation which I guess is quite rare in PLO...added to the ICM I wasn't sure what to do. Donk flop could have been an option as you say but I would have trouble donk-folding if he pot raised.

    FishNoob - His open preflop was his standard in 4max play, so nothing fishy there. Was more the pot flop.
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    12-10-2014 , 09:27 AM
    30bb, kkxx, against BU open, .. flop is K xy.. am i missed something?
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    12-10-2014 , 10:13 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by naggeri
    30bb, kkxx, against BU open, .. flop is K xy.. am i missed something?
    Not really no, I was just unsure because of ICM with the other player short, and his unusual pot bet which initially reeked of a made hand to me.

    Spoiler:
    He had AA, but that's not really the point, it's not a whine post, I just thought it was an interesting spot becasue of the ICM implications.

    Last edited by ILoveLamp.; 12-10-2014 at 10:23 AM.
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    12-10-2014 , 11:43 AM
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    FishNoob - His open preflop was his standard in 4max play, so nothing fishy there. Was more the pot flop.
    I expect if he had AA he would raise smaller, it's possible he is trying to grind you both down and gain momentum with his chip lead but pot raises don't indicate this necessarily all the time, good players will switch between the two to keep it unknown,, even with a K blocker he can bet against hero not having top two and would be able to barrel him out, but honestly I doubt this player has a high level of awareness and with the stack size 8bb we can afford to wait on preflop and postflop nuts when running ruin risk against chip leader who will still have 50/50 shot of 2nd if he loses. You could even do a call into check raise to exploit this, but there is only like a 65:35 turn confidence, I'm happy to reraise flop just to assume 'captain' role. If he is potting preflop on BTN with 75% of his range, then AA and 88 share some weight evenly. If he folds BTN's then AA becomes a concern, worried because 2nd place is only 8bbs, have the Kh, all his AA are live, we block his strong A*** combo's - (if he is potting A987 or even A668 preflop every time on BTN then I think he is a bad player) and his get it in range could be v nasty.

    If he is competent and is only potting preflop , then I expect his range to be pretty narrow. Your perception of the last rounds since 4 way play can be attributed to him having a nice run of deals. The sample size you have is going to be significant. You can almost 3b/fold preflop, but if he has AA there is not much reason for him to jam when he can exploit a C bet.

    Last edited by Mt.FishNoob; 12-10-2014 at 12:00 PM.
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    12-10-2014 , 12:04 PM
    If it's not a 3b pot I gii too, but maybe it's an example of where you can trust your gut instinct?
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    12-10-2014 , 12:24 PM
    I also play a lot of plo mtts. I have these doubts a lot. But here btn has 40 bb. He can pot with A x plus high flushdraw. If you want to bust shorty first you call and see a turn. You then still have 20 bb left when folding vs a button potbet on a scarecard turn. Any blanc turn i would then shove. The shove or fold the flop play you can avoid since you can stay with enough bb left. Some may say waste but i think this is icm correct play here.

    Sent from my LG-D295 using 2+2 Forums
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    12-10-2014 , 12:56 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by naggeri
    30bb, kkxx, against BU open, .. flop is K xy.. am i missed something?
    Flop is AKx, we have Kh

    May be a spot to fold with your reads.
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