I'm on over a 100k downswing, i'm 110k under ev lifetime, and every single day I wake up determined, study hands, read about plo, get focused, and then get ass raped. I even gave up smoking weed recently to try to maintain more focus. This is undoubtedly the lowest point of my life- it's been going on for 40 days now. I still feel like I'm playing well. I don't feel tilted when I sit down and when I do feel tilt i quit. I never used to tilt much but now it's happening about every day. I quit the tables but my anger just follows me- I'm usually good about 30 minutes after but that's because I'm not thinking about it anymore. At the end of sessions I've screamed horrible things and I even raised my fist to my dog (I obv didn't hit him but just watching him quiver was one of the worst experiences of my life). If someone walked into my house 5 minutes ago I probably would have beat them within an inch of their life. I have never been a violent person. I can't quit poker. I'm too good at it and couldn't settle for a 9-5/50k/yr job, but more importantly, I could never go out like this. In fact, I can't imagine ever quitting at my lowest- I think it'd tear me up inside forever. I used to love it, now I hate it- or rather, I hate how it makes me feel. I feel like I'm lost in a black hole. If anyone has experienced a similar situation and come out on the other side please share. I want someone to give me advice or make me feel better or at the very least not feel so damn lonely. I literally feel like I'm taking years off my life with these emotions day in and day out.

Plos cruel man hang in there. I busted my 50k stars roll over the summer and was def an angry person during that time. Best advice I can give is take some time off 2 weeks to a month. Try playing on a new site, a fresh start always help, poss see a psychologist just so you can vent to someone and if they recommend it; they could prescribe you to an antidepressant or a mood stabilizer to level you off. If you don't wanna deal with 9-5 jobs like most of us this is the typa thing you gotta work through and overcome. Good luck brotha

kutty, just hang in there man. I've been learning PLO and i know how you feel. losing every pot that you get it in with ... u just hope that u win one flip and u get mad sometimes. Don't let it get to you, play well, play tighter. have a friend watch you play if u can so you don't tilt when you play. Don't listen to music, be calm when you play and don't let emotion affect your play. Stick with it, think of the cars, the big house, and the hot girls

Get on AIM and we can exchange sob stories.

Worst advice ever.

My Tip:
Best advice ever.

In particular: link

1) Yeah, mostly everyone who's been playing poker a while has been through this. I've been through what you're describing twice. Sounds like you're trying to handle it the right way (other than moving down). Next time you feel it, it will be worse, though.

2) I really, really expected this post to end in 'I pulled up to a house about seven or eight, and I yelled to the cabby "yo homes, smell you later!" Looked at my kingdom I was finally there, to sit on my throne as the prince of bel air'

Anyone else?

Kutty your post is def not the first post of its kind but another example of why playing poker for a living is in general/ for the majority not sustainable or healthy.
You could be a great player as you say, i don’t doubt that but how much of your roll have you lost? will you get to a point if you lose any more that you can’t mentally grind out at lower stakes, will that even work for you? can you go through the motions of starting again? will you perform the same, etc etc etc. all these things affect poker players and in general, combined with variance ( especially plo) is why most pros don’t sustain the level of income, lifestyle, money, winnings that they want, and more importantly to live off and set yourself up long term ( property, wife, family, savings etc).

I’m not advocating to get a real job but i would be surprised if you enjoy poker any more than myself, or equally important whether your any better than myself at it. Yet for the sake of insanity, stability, external responsibilities i still work - although my work is revolved around gambling/ poker ( marketing). I still play as often as i can and any winnings which for a good player is regular each month acts as an additional tax free bonus on top of my decent income.

My overall disadvantage or downside to this is that i don’t have the freedom pro players have, and the ability to play whenever i want. But once you get used to it and realize your doing the right thing you appreciate its the most sensible way to live.

I’m not having a dig at any pro player - i wish them all luck, but it would be interesting to see the stats on the longevity of their profession v's their lifestyle/situation. I think there is such a small % of pro players outside the endorsed/sponsored pro's or pros who also have poker related business interests generating them money that actually sustain their winnings and living over 5-10yrs.

On top of that how many of these pros have much going on outside their life other than poker.


Wass is a great PLo player, and a great thinker of the game who clearly loves it. He has been pro for a while but i bet even himself realises that he wont be playing full time pro for the next 5-10 yrs without going to do somethign else or venturing into some form of businsess whilst continuing to play poker ( i could be completely wrong here!)

Dont quit poker mate - just re evaluate your priorities and long term aspirations. If your thinking poker god, your living an unrealisic dream.

Recently in the midst of a 50bi downswing and hating life. I hope you run better. good luck!

Hey dudes, thanks for all the support. When I was writing that post I wasn't sure if I would regret it- for 1) I'm glad I did because I think it accurately reflects what I was feeling at the time and I guess what I'm feeling in the back of my mind even now- at this point in a downswing I think it would be unhealthy not to feel this way. For 2) I'm glad i did because of all the support I've received in just this past 12 hours. 1 thing that's been really tough is I've just moved to a new city, don't have a girl, and don't have any poker friends around here to talk to about the ups and downs etc. I've always been an advocate that it's better to surround yourself with normal people but man when you're going through the extremes it sure is nice to be able to share. So obv. I was super happy to see all these great responses and that's why I'll do my best to respond to them all.

Taking time off is probably the best advice. But, we're barely 1 week out of the new year and I still have goals I haven't given up on so I'm gunna have to heed this wisdom on a smaller scale. I'm gunna take today off, maybe study some hands tonight, and come back tomorrow at lower stakes.

As far as the psychiatrist- I don't wanna get on the mood medicine train, especially with such an emotional job, but I've been wanting to see a psychiatrist for years. Even without poker, I think it's a pretty cool setup that could help me learn a lot about myself. Unfortunately my health insurance doesn't cover it and they are expensive so maybe when i'm upswonging . catch 22!

PS- I'm really not depressed. I haven't felt great this past month but overall I think I'm doing just fine.

Don't listen to music?!? enter mega-tilt! . Music is my love and doubt I could get through a normal day without it much less a poker sesh, but I have been putting on some more mellow stuff (Actually, if you like acoustic solo stuff check out Amos Lee- I think self-titled album? It's some of the best music I've heard recently). Gotta agree with recon on the rest- I think a general rule of poker is the smaller you can think/focus the better. Right now all I'm focusing on is the basics- sticking to my daily routine and grinding.

Just wanna say again I appreciate the convo last night. It really helps perspective when you can take thoughts out of your head and bounce them off someone else.

I've been interested in meditation since freshman year of college. Maybe this will be the kick to the groin it takes to finally sit down and not think about **** =).

hahahaha prince roll would have been epic. dammit, if only i wasn't so pissed off when writing that. I appreciate your advice in the first paragraph, and one of the things I'm most scared about is that I'll be gun-shy/more easily tiltable next time I move up stakes b/c I'll remember all the terrible things that happened this time. I don't know if it will be worse though, I do feel like I've matured a lot over the past month- or maybe that's why it's worse b/c i'll see that facade come crashing down.

Yeah I've definitely gained a more well-rounded perspective of online poker. Only thing is I can't tell if I was overly naive in November or am overly jaded now. Probably a bit of both. I haven't lost too much of my roll considering, but your point about settling for grinding out lower stakes than I want is a fair one- It's gunna take a lot of mental toughness, we'll see if I have it.

As far as setting myself up long-term I've been trying to get into real estate. I've been pounding the pavement for the past 3 months, just found a sick deal, made an offer and found out I got outbid 2 days ago- omg tilt. Downswinging has made it a bit more stressful but overall I'd say it's prolly helping me in this regard cause my criteria has definitely become more stringent since I became 100k poorer.

Thanks donkey king, if you have IM or gchat or whatever and wanna talk/get a second opinion on a few HHs feel free to PM me your info.



Anywayyyyy, thanks again guys for the support and really just letting me vent. I know I've probably written way more than necessary but it felt good to do. If any of you guys have questions or need anything from me just ask and I'll be there for you. Also just wanna reiterate that despite the overwhelmingly negative overtones of my last few posts I'm really not in that bad a shape so save some pity for other people . Like they say, whatever don't break a man make a man so I'll see you all on the felt soon enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUXV3ANiFGA

that should make you feel better

you should probably try it also.

hahaha excellent, actually i was just telling my friend the one good thing about this downswing is i'm working out a lot to release some stress. but unlike Arnold, I feel like I'm coming when I make sick hero calls or 3barrels. So you can imagine how much I like grinding. It's like I'm coming when I snap a bet with second pair. It's like I'm coming when I c/r spades on the river. It's like I'm coming when an opponent goes beserk in chat. So you can imagine how much I like poker, because I'm cumming 8 hours a day.

Kutty, I read an interview with a poker coach once who said he tried to train his students to become detached from the highs of winning a hand and the lows of losing one. He wanted them actually to have no reaction whatsoever (is that possible?) and to just focus on their decision making, assumptions, etc. and go from there. I am not close to being that steady (I still enjoy a little fist pump and have been known to smack my forward for a dumb play) but I do try and detach myself as much as possible. And I am happy to report that I had no emotional reaction to getting a burning quadriffic slow roll handed to me today. In fact, I was kinda just sitting there wondering if my opponent is just a jerk (we have no history that I know of) or was he determined enough to try and get an edge on me no matter what, hence the slow roll. If the latter, I kind of admire the tenaciousness of that, although I wouldn't use that particular tool. Ok, ramble done, good luck.

Kutty's post and responses have been really good. Makes my 30 buyin swing seem meaningless.

I used to practice this and tell my students to practice it. It's still obviously important to make sure it's logic that prevails in your decision-making, but to try to quell your emotions and keep them underneath the surface, when they're still there when we win/lose big pots or play really well/really badly, leads to a build-up of pressure underneath the surface, which is never healthy. Being emotionally stimulated (social life, good books) and physically stimulated (sex, sports) really helps as well.

The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $2560.25
BTN/SB: $2492.25

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BB with A 7 K T
BTN/SB raises to $20, Hero raises to $60, BTN/SB calls $40

Flop: ($120.00) 7 6 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $90.00, BTN/SB calls $90

Turn: ($300.00) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $160.00, BTN/SB raises to $550, Hero calls $390

River: ($1400.00) K (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $680.00, Hero calls $680

Final Pot: $2760.00
Hero shows A 7 K T
BTN/SB shows A 7 4 9
Hero wins $2759.50
(Rake: $0.50)

nh dont wanna play u whoever u r

What's your plan on the 80% of rivers that are hard? Seems like a pretty tough turn call imo. What'd you put him on?

PS- thanks madscientist that's much appreciated, gl upswonging

i didnt have a rvr plan other than to get there. I called the turn bc i expected him to raise and we're a little too deep to shove. Could be good or really bad idk.

yea didn't mean to be a downer or anything and obv you souldcrushed him so nh, just seems like his turn raising range is doing well vs a7

kutty, he can help u:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1s86vDhjx8

yeah I think the last sentence is really really important

thats awesome! gona listen that everyday to get in to the grind mood

Did I overplay this on turn? Getting destroyed recently and second guessing myself. Thanks
Villian is 51/28/7/3.5k hands cbet is 81% and agg is 2.6

5/10 Pot limit Omaha Cash Games, 6 Players
Hand Converter by Pokerhand.org

Board:
CO: $5,101.50
Button: $1,911.50
SB: $531.50
BB: $2,746
UTG: $2,610.50
UTG+1: $1,080.50

Dealt to Button A T K 7

Pre-flop:
(1 folds), CO raises to $30, Button calls $30, (2 folds)

Flop: ($75) A 6 T (3 Players)
CO bets $50, Button calls $50

Turn: ($175) 4 (3 Players)
CO bets $140, Button raises to $602.50, CO raises to $1,850, Button calls $1,227.50

if he's never shipping over the top with worse you probably have to fold to the turn shove;

AcTs6h4s
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
AhTh7hKs 26.43% 59,700 197,790
AA**,TT**,66**,AT**,AsBB*s,KsQsJ* 73.57% 342,510 197,790

in position calling should be easy enough to play rivers. but against an aggro fish (if he is) this is probably not too bad

Definitely 3bet pre. I think maybe in a single raised pot i would flat the turn again because raising the turn makes ur hand pretty obvious and theres quite a bit behind. Also, its gross when he shoves but im never folding once i put that much in.