Me neither. Can somebody clarify?!

Hi

Are these accounts playing in 200 and 500 ZOOM everyday? If you guys are so sure they are cheating why dont you give us the names so we can stop loosing money to these clowns.

my question to you pasta:

- you think they are ''only'' making colusion or theres a machine playing with them (bots) ?

you say 20-30 bots... you told me accounts, jas11 and other legit regs also told me accounts . i have history of playing with this players, and i dont think they are bots for many reasons :

- timing, the way they chat, number of tables (why a bot don't sit at all tables ? theres 14 tables running, all of them good tables, suspect account only sit at 6 , why ?) and especially, if they were bots, their style would be similar . their style is diferent than each other . also, how you playing vs bots sharing cards making 12bb ? you are good player, ok, but vs bots sharing cards would be impossible to win that much, no ?

what you think about this reasons ?

can you post the graph you posted from bot team with 0 filters ? im curious to see their overall ev line and their winrate . also, what stakes we talking about ? 0.5/1 up to 3/6 ?

if theres players making colusion at online poker ? yes, pretty sure . its part of poker online since 2001 . weeks ago, i told you about hands that it was clear colusion involved.

but i dont think its a super team with a machine behind, like you and freewilly thinks .

i have impression that you put togheter accounts who run above ev, put them togheter and say ''omg colusion !!!"

maybe im wrong, idk, im just saying my opinion .

if they are making hard colusion, know 8, 12 cards in each table, why i dont see any ridiculous showdown ? they would play alternative hands w/o any reason , but all i see from listed ''bots'' accounts is a very nit game .

im asking this things becasue im dont know, im not ''challenging'' you.

Reason to run well in the other and ****ty in the other is probably to constrain the winrate so they wont instantly bust. At the same time I have a hunch that it might be related to the way how the collusion at the tables is setup.

First thing that anyone does is to check that how well certain players run overall. They dont want to be spotted by running that much over AIEV and mixed strategy might be harder to fix/control (depending on the setup) so the problem is tackled by controlling AIEV-run in the "micro games" and not to be spotted so easily.

i think its ridiculous they don't say what stakes and what format (zoom, normal tables) they are playing. and the worst is writing what they write and don't give names, thats ridiculous.

i imagine most of suspect accounts are playing more normal tables and not much zoom .

lol at this theory ...............

asking again, can we see their evbb lines and winrate w/o any filter ?

acording to ptr this bots are winning only 5bb ? theres legit regs winning 10bb . pasta posted a graph w 12bb .

WHY bots only win 5bb if theres legit regs winning 2x more than that ?

also, how they run so bad , for purpose ? wtf ? doesnt make sense.

maybe im missing something, pls correct me if im wrong.

Just want to clarify my standings.

-I analyzed an old database of banned bot ring independent of pastafiore (I don't know pasta)

-My data was in line with the data pastafiore represented about the past bot ring

-I don't know how to explain the findings other than collusion but I am open to ideas

-I have no data of current suspects

You dont want to be the top-dog when you're scamming people of their money. You want to hang around in the middle of the pack and go unnoticed.

Please pay some attention.

It's all in my post with the screenshots and graphs.
My data is only about the banned and confirmed bot ring (seregax, fedorzayvev & co)
The point is there is some huge abnormalities how these bots ran. I don't know how to explain it other than collusion.
Pasta has some new data about current players with similar abnormalities which implies foul play.

Check yousefahmed winrate at plo600 , definitely a bot running over ev

urubu, you should read the thread again, there's answer for all your questions.

I can't imagine any legitimate player who is winning overall at any stakes while maintaining a negative AIEV line when 3betting IP preflop over even a relatively small or medium sized sample, especially not in the -2 to -6bb/hand range which would be limited to players in the bottom 5% of the player pool. Anyone that is legitimately -AIEV in 3bet pots while having position has a complete lack of understanding of the game that would make it impossible for them to win overall without some form of cheating or foul play.

they don't have a negative all-in EV line because of their lack of understanding of the game, but because they stack off very often behind, knowing that they are actually ahead, because of card sharing.

How does this cardsharing work while multitabling?

They have to have some software, that makes the folded cards from the other players pop up on the table, or what?

They can´t be on skype all the time telling each other the folded cards...

Exactly. Additionally, they have learned from previous mistakes and spread the accounts over more different countries.

If I take the 5 accounts Pastafiore posted, we see:
-1x Malta (the only accused player, who actually posted in this thread)
-1x Czech Republic
-1x Hong Kong (actually I remember seeing his location changed to Indonesia a few months ago, but not 100 % sure about this)
-1x Canada
-1x Belarus

True.

Yes, this is actually the biggest indicator for collusion. If someone has any doubts regarding this, please play around with some simulation tool and see how even knowing only a few dead cards changes equities drastically.

can you post that graph with same alias without any filter ? i ask you this 3-4 times already.

im just curious to see their winrates.

one thing that you still dont write here... why you don't out screenames to legit regs ? why you dont say this names to regs who we are sure are honest?

i will resume my opinion after reading last pages:

i think theres colusion running at stars and maybe bots. i dont think theres so many acounts and so much going on like pasta thinks .

theres accounts from ukraine who im 99% sure are cheating . im not 100%, so im not saying their names...

i dont undertand why pasta (or anyone) who is 100% sure about this cheaters dont out them .

he runs like that since 2012 at all stakes.

huge luckbox .

i can post it for you, after you post own graphs here with exactly same filters, what ive used for published regs, by using gyazo links.

yes i have said, there's 5finnish regs looking this thing now very closely. and how can you be sure about some1, at least if you dont know him irl? at least one confirmed colluder have spammed here in last 48h, and i don't mean yso now.

you'e arguing with absolutely zero conceret fundament, also your wiews have made absolutely zero sense sofar, what looks just like you're trying to sabotage this for some reason.

i will resume my opinion after reading last pages:

that's the problem, you just "think"=feel like, and ingore every conceretic thing. trying to argue black to the white. how can you say that there's not that much accounts, even if you play at plo100 nowdays only? or a little 50 and 200 too? i have played plo50-2000 at normal tables this year, and zoom200-2000.

i just want know what screenames you suspect, their graphs with overall winrates, and few more things that you refuse to share with us . am i asking too much ?

i dont like things posted at public forum, i dont like sharing my own graphs.

true, i dont have any fundament and what i think = feel . i dont understand well this things .

i can share those when you share what i asked for. but i still can say those accounts do beat rake in my sample.

i do remember another kind of urubu better.

I already posted ITT saying that keeping the names private is doing nothing to help the legitimate players in those games, the accounts are obviously keeping the minimum amount of funds that are needed to play a daily session of 8 - 16 card poker so there is no opportunity to catch them with large amounts of money to refund the players. I would much rather know the names of all of the account names and get no refund than not know and get the expected refund of $2.47

I actually didn't realize how many cheating "pseudo-regs" there are that will play for a bit and then just take breaks for 4+ months which most "daily regs" would completely forget about and might not even have hands on them if they use a database of only a few months. I just saw a player 4 tabling 100z from Belarus who had a color note which i wouldn't give to any 100z player in the last 4 months, turns out I haven't seen him playing for about 6 months so looked around online to see if there was anything suspicious about him



He was making sure to hit hit all 3 freerolls on the last Saturday of the month which no 100z PLO reg does and probably 80%+ dont even know about, especially not that stupid chromestar 20K guarantee freeroll that has about $0.50 in EV since it's not even worth the screen space for a human player. The previously banned PLO bots would play the freerolls as well, but they generally only played the old quarterly freerolls and so would play < 20 mtts in 3 years like FedorZaysev

http://www.officialpokerrankings.com....html?t=3&scp=

seaking, imo refunds are very secondary thing here, it's obvious that ppl are getting very little amount of refunds anycase.

if you watch the ****storm what happened even if i did have really good proof, you do understand we won't bring any 99% sure nicks on public yet, it's still possible there's few legit players in suspects yet. we will share nicks on public now in future for sure. we're really careful about what nicks we do bring in public, i really have to be 100% sure of colluding or botting.

also all colluders/bots cant be busted by using those filters i brought on public, and _bots_ propably does not even have to share cards on low stakes, and they still do beat the field there.

i have to say also that i personally appreciate your effort really much, even if we're not best friends on the world. that's how straight backed, and legit player does.

I don't have anything against you personally and I'm doing my best to help in any way possible, when I had previously stated that I felt you were casting your net a big too wide it was because you weren't 100% clear in your distinction between collusion/card sharing and bots/automated play and it is clearly the case that not all players breaking the TOS fall into both categories. When I say that keeping the names private I am generally talking more so about sharing it "publicly" between known legit regulars with an extensive playing history such as myself and urubu and not so much about specifically posting the list of names ITT so a bunch of people who have already polluted the discussion can continue doing so. Anyway I will pm you my Skype info if you would like to discuss anything pertaining to the TOS breakers in private.

I been thinking it is very likely the ex-botring use numerous accounts now with smaller volume.
So much harder to out the right accounts if this is happening.