As someone who's been struggling alot lately as well, i find one thing thats difficult to juggle is the desire to talk/get help with the desire not to be a burden to others. And since, often time people rather not hang around with people who are negative and distantiate themselves from that negativity, im scared this might drift some people away and further increase the impression of being disynchronized with my life / others.

Theres also this sort of guiltyness that comes out of the thought of relativising your struggles with some of the struggles others are going through.

Fortunately, i have a few friends that are very close to me, and this really served to make me realize how valuable they are to me.

Wish you the best of luck man,
Hang in there it gets better.

Here's a post I wrote a few months ago in a thread about not wanting to leave my house. Someone else in the thread said it might be social anxiety, but I don't know. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...9&postcount=86

As Jman said, I don't think people realize how hard it is for me to physically leave my house at this point. I've started exercising a couple times a day, but going to a gym to do it is a really daunting thing.

Just want to chime in and say that this thread is one of the best on 2p2. It makes me (and should make others) feel so grateful about being in good health, physically and mentally. This is indeed the most important thing in life.

I wish you the best of luck DB, and my condolences for your current situation.

Sean,

Sorry this happened to you man. Here's a few things that I have learned through playing or heard from other people that might help you right now.

1) Life is not linear. A very common mistake that people make is to take your current state of being and project it forward as if things are always going to be that way. Don't project this extreme low in your life forward, as your life will not always be this way. Things are only going to get better for you from here as long as you can pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back to living your life.

2) Life does not revolve around poker or money. I've been in some dark places myself, most of the darkest were brought about from poker so I know the state of mind you're likely in right now. The best thing you can do is get out, do something (anything really like Phil said), and talk to people. As a poker player, especially one of your skill level who experienced the swings you did, it is very hard to not have your life engulfed by the short term swings of poker. You may have found yourself extremely upset after big losses, and only marginally happier from big wins, as they happen more and more the wins are less enjoyable and the losses can be equally bad or even worse. I can't tell you how to get over this effect, because I never figured it out myself, but I can tell you that doing other activities will definitely help.

3) You're not even 21 years old yet. You don't need to know what you're going to do with your life. Nobody does. 60k debt is not much today man, you can get passed that. However you won't get passed it until you get out of your self-loathing behavior. You need to take small steps to get out of your funk.

4) You're the man and always have been. Just remember you still have your WHOLE life ahead of you. You got high up in poker not because you're a great poker player, but because you're an extremely smart person. The skills that helped you succeed in poker aren't gone, they live within you and will be assets in your life no matter what you do.

5) When things get bad, and you feel that tightening in your chest and you don't know what to do... remember to breathe. Big, deep breaths. Give it a try, you'll be surprised how much it helps.

Hope this helps man. Best of luck in your recovery. I don't think it will take more than a little nudge to get the ball rolling on your recovery.

Jim

Not that I'm qualified for this but I think reading a book like "The monk who sold his ferrari" by Robin Sharma, or similar books, and try to adapt it will be a lot helpful. This + professional help as you've alrdy taken I guess. What is in the past, you can't change. But from now, you can do all things right and it's up to you. It's hard work but it will also make you grow and, as from anything, you can get something good out of it. This is a promise.

The comments on anti-depressants ITT are dangerous. Those drugs save lives. Anyone advocating to stay or get off them when he (or anyone reading) is suicidal and have been prescribed them by a trained professional is just wrong.

-There may be ways to getting through depression that doesn't include drugs but that in no way means they should not be taken by anyone

-Placebo effect is very profound in depression, but that does not make anti-depressants worthless. In fact, they are the way to get this placebo effect. Not to mention they do work better than placebo.

-SSRI's are very safe. Sexual side effects are most common and it is very rare for anything serious to happen. Many side effects occur when starting and stopping so this should be done under professional supervision. Nobody should stop an SSRI on their own, especially for the first time.

The amount anti-pharmaceutical rhetoric on this site is appalling.

Good luck DB, there is only one way to go from here.

another thing that helps if you sometimes cant get out of bed is thinking in what you could possible do to make you feel better, adn then think like, i feel kinda bad now but i will do x thing later to feel better. And then focus really hard on that and try actually finding the willpower to do it. Alot of depressed people are thinking the wrong way, they dont think constructive, but have thoughts that will produce other bad thoughts. Remember thoughts are laregely responsible for emotions.

wow.
phil i continue to be amazed every time you put pen to paper (figuratively speaking of course).

this is a great post and great advice

The oracle has spoken...

Sean, we've spoken a bit on skype and here on 2p2. Obviously however we don't know each other too well. I just want to wish you the best mate, and I've been thinking everyday about you, hoping you come through this.

If you can get to the stage of travelling etc, you should know you've always got a room to crash in here in Australia.

There's been alot of awesome advice in this thread, I too had struggled with some life issues over the last 6mths, and I did exactly what the guys before have recommended.

ATM I am guessing you have next to no confidence in anything you do. I can totally relate. I will vouch 100% for exercise first before anything. Look after yourself physically, once you start to feel good, you will notice that you look good, then your confidence will start to pick up. Once you're feeling better about yourself, you can focus on becoming more confident in different things.

If I were to recommend a job, I'd recommend something like bar work. It will be hard at first if you are having social anxiety, but if you can work your way past that it is a great way to meet people and get friendly with a good group of people.

I hope you get well soon mate,

Ben

jman,

your perspective is inspiring. Thanks for sharing that.

what is actually stopping you? Is there a quantifiable thought, something you can name? 'social anxiety but I don't know'. It's name is aggorophobia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgaG1x--Ua0 There is nothing social about leaving the house. Describe what you feel when leaving the house, what is that? Old women that have been robbed i can understand but to be frank there is no excuse to have barrier or fear, there is no difference between the inside and outside of the house except for privacy and security. The outside is just a lot bigger and brighter. There must be something negative about 'outiside' and favourable about 'inside' in your mind, I think if you could seemly be aware of this and recognise it is a lie, and then affirmate that the outside is good, is nice, and staying inside is wrong, and for emos, and you are not an emo, you are a man,,,, :/ basically my point is that you need to be self cognitive, through ego and affirmation. All it consists of is that history has wired your mind a certain way, awesome thing about mind is though that it can shape itself, aswell as be shaped by stimuli.

another song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgaG1x--Ua0

I think I understand your feelings somewhat, there are certain psychological things that people who adopt grinding and spend long periods of time without leaving the house will share. THe motivation you have for grinding poker, why can't it be applied to the whole universe?

isnt there some form of job where u can transfer ur poker skills to (in the long run obv)? maybe try getting some finance degree etc

Sorry to hear your situation OP, but then hmm not really.. Why? I will try to explain.

As I can read your a good pokerplayer and these skill sets you can use in other parts of life outside poker. Being good to control your emotions at times when necessary, handling the ups and downs in life, moving forward, good perspective on life already/mature, good thinker, strategic, etc.

That's a solid start right there.. But now think about this..

You're pretty young.. I'm 20 and I guess ur about that age too.. I have dedicated a lot of time to poker and often I stop and think: "was this really worth it?" not only the money, but the time I've wasted when my friends was out and I skipped yet another weekend grinding..

Can money give me back the joy of being young, experiencing the adrenaline when approaching a hot chick, having a blast with your friends with no worries of tomorrow, young and care free..

I can remember when I was 15-16 and upcomming "pro" I read an article in the local dansih poker news site with Gus Hansen saying "If you're young and considering poker/gambling as your profession just don't.. Don't do it! Go out there and enjoy life.. You can't buy it for money. You have to experience it.. It's a part of life that can't be missed" something like that.. And it was always stuck in my head. So I've been trying to balance it as good as I can..

What I'm trying to say.. I know the EXACT feeling of "I can't stop poker now.. I have dedicated too much time, it would be a total waste of all the hours/practice I put in it in order to be where I am". But think again.. You can't get these years back, poker is fine as a side job/money to start something else..

For example in my case I'm travelling 4-6 months at a time in different destinations to get inspired to what I want to do next in my life... Life is a gift and there is so much more to it then just money. And money that involves downswings, irritation, anger, frustration, depression.. That's the damn hardest money I've ever earned..

Your belief right now may be that your so unlucky, in a **** situation, why me, etc. But everytime I'm down in life, feeling bad or w/a.. My mom always learned me to be thankful. "Having an aittude of gratitude". Think of your family.. How lucky you are to have them in your life. Your friends. That you're healthy.. Able to walk normally.. Smart.. And not born without legs, homeless, etc. That's the best way to put in perspective and see that your situation is not as bad as it seems.. You will ALWAYS have a way to come on top again..

So what's worth you time? And what's your future goals in life.. Aim high!

You're the only one to truely answer that.. And everything starts with small action steps.

Wish you and all the other people in the same situation the best.

Natural.

Lots of great advice in this thread. The important thing to focus on for now is to take baby steps toward a balanced, healthy lifestyle. I think given your poker skill, you shouldn't be quitting cold turkey, but you also shouldn't be playing right now when you're in your current mental state. It won't be possible to play your A game or probably all that close to it. For now, take steps toward improving your mental state. You have to work on getting over your fear of leaving the house. I'd recommend just taking some short walks, maybe throw some headphones on with music you listen to at home so it's less intimidating. Sunlight is important for your mental health. Continue exercising and consider joining a gym, as it's a good excuse to leave the house. I'm not sure what your diet is like, but try to make some improvements there too.

As for income, realistically I don't think any part-time job you could get would be all that fulfilling. I like the idea of doing poker coaching, your hourly rate should be significantly higher than at any other job you'd be working and it'll help keep your poker mind sharp while you're taking a break from playing. College is a great idea. You'll make friends - I was nervous about making friends when I went too since I was extremely shy then, but in college everyone wants to make friends and it's very easy to - plus have the opportunity to learn about subjects that interest you, and you'll have a ton of fun in the process. You'll have plenty of free time to play some poker on the side too. As others said, you'll have to start at community college and it may be a bit different, but if you get good grades you'll be able to transfer to a 4-year college fast and then be able to enjoy the full college experience.

Also, continue taking SSRIs and seeing a professional. Stopping would make things even more difficult.

When you're feeling down it's easy to get trapped in your mind and thinking it's always going to be like that, but it's not. You're young and smart and have a very bright future ahead. But for now, just try to take baby steps toward positive change. I wish you the best.

Brian

i joked about this exact thing in IRC years ago, when i would take a shot at Ivey for a few hands at 500/1 or benyamine at 1k/2k LO8 just so i could beat the final mega-boss. as alluded to in my brief initial post in this thread, obv it didnt end up good.

Lefort's paragraph above is spot-on for me, and something i'm still needing to really take into consideration now as i'm starting to re-grind some live poker. my eyes are already on the biggest games in the area even though of course i'm short rolled

my problem is that grinding consumes time, so if i'm gonna be putting in the time, i want the most reward out of it. that obviously entails playing the highest stakes possible to make the most of my time. reconciling this has been tough for me..

we have 167 posts in this thread, no one has been a douche so far and a lot of good advice has been given. that is pretty cool and i m sure you re not the only one taking positive inspirations out of this. i congratulate you for having made this thread and really hope for you that you will feel better soon!
i d advocate taken jmans advice and try to make small steps. best of luck!

Well It has already been mentioned before but the things I would do would be:

I also had some rough **** in my life and felt that I hit rock bottom several times but I always came back due to hard work.


* If you are at a certain level and you havent done anything else than it could possibly "tilt" you even more when you start off doing a normal job

*SSRI´s might help you getting your mood back so you can motivate yourself but you can do that yourself with some methods as well.
For example: Dopamin is really important for self confidence. I think it might be the stuff you need atm. So instead of getting it artifically you can try to do things in life to boost your self esteem and then get yourself motivated to play. That starts from the most easy things: Making your bed,going out for shopping and finishing other " unimportant" tasks make you happy. The more productive things you do in a single day the more proud you will be.

*You need to trick your mind. Watch stupid videos that are motivational. Everyone has something different that might help him. Some people watch soccer videos some other watch Navy Seals training some others watch interviews from pokerplayers. Some people listen to hiphop/hardtekno and some even to reaggea to help them getting motivated. You have to decide for yourself what kind of motivation works for you.

*Sports is key also for increasing dopamine levels. Especially after you have finished a workout you will feel great. Cardio training will also help you getting back self discipline


*Cool down and warm up before every poker seshion because after emotional phases(like the one you are having atm) you might tend to tilt quicker than usual. So looses will hurt you more. You want to avoid these things at the beggining so I suggest starting off with short seshions and watching pokervideos before you play and watching nonsense TV series after.



Wish you the best

I agree with most that the others and phil said, but i think there is also a problem. IF DB suffers from a depression, we cant just give an advice like: find a job, go back to school, find a healty daily routine, etc. Most people with a depression are frightend to go out, get a job and leave their house, because they cant find the energy to do so. Most feel very scared in an unknown environment. I found myself in an somewhat similar situation. I quit school, sucked at poker, had no energy, panic attacks, lost friends, till i opened myself and started seeing a therapist. having said this, friends and family always told me to get myself together, clean up my life, go out, find a job - but i just coudnt find the energy to do so, because of the physical symptoms of the depression. I needed over a year to overcome this. I was in treatement and my therapist used cognitive behaviour therapy, which helped a lot. Luckily that worked without any pills or medication. The task was to confront myself with everything that was making me feel depressed and scared (for exapl. in long therapy sessions), and i had to do a lot of work on myself and had to learn a lot about the good and bad sides of my character. I also had to confront myself with my ambitions in life. i always was over ambitious and coudnt see my limits (in school, work, relationships aso.), which slowly burned me out.

I also think that the financial aspect of your situations sucks a lot. Because you clearly would need some time just doing therapy and not worring how to pay for it (its clearly cheaper to get meds, but that cant heal you), or how to pay your backers. Playing poker to finance a longterm therapy cant be a solution, because it would drive you back in your old behaviour.

Anyway, I wish you all the best. sorry for my bad english, im not an english speaker. kaubstar

Don't know you particularily well DB, but have talked on skype a bit and I am superficially aware of your general path/situation.

This is pretty much bang on my view of poker now. I went from having zero motivation in poker for the first 2 years I played to becoming very motivated to become sick good/beat the highest stakes, etc. once my finished uni when BF, etc. happened, which gave me a (in hindsight, coz I lost most of my roll during it) very welcome wakeup call, but basically sapped my motivation to play or be associated with poker in any form for a while. The motivation stemmed from trying to accomplish a goal, rather than a pointless grind for money that wasn't affecting my life one way or another in the immediate. Fact is, you can have many goals in poker and increasing your winrate by 0.01bb/100 at 5c/10c is in no way an inferior goal to being the best nosebleeds players on the planet in the grand scheme of things. I now have more motivation to play even though I am playing lower than I used to and I intend to play very very overolled and keep a small % of total net worth online from this point onwards. I am content with grinding midstakes and trying to become one of the best players playing there without any need to make millions or play nosebleeds, etc. Personally, for me to attempt that would be playing russian roulette with my happiness and that is not something I am willing to do (ultimately money is meant to be used to "obtain happiness" but if the process is making you miserable then reaching your "goal" is still counterproductive).

DB, if you want to challenge yourself against the best, you are taking a huge risk, simple as that. There is a HUGE survivor bias in regards to hero/fail ratio in poker. Since falling hard clearly makes you miserable I don't think is a wise goal in life. This is irrespective of whether or not you should practically be playing poker - i think you really need to examine your goals and desires in life (ie. even if you don't play poker ever again, if your thoughts are dominated by "what if" then there is still a serious problem).

Happiness is what is important. While money is a tool for security/freedom, it absolutely does not bring happiness imo (and i suspect for alot of ppl who have made it big that the reality didn't match how they had imagined it). So basically what i am saying is work on being happy. Winning at poker will not bring that. Getting a part time job will not bring that. It requires an introspective examination and alot of work.

Personally I think you should step back from poker for a while and try to improve your social life/hobbies/relationships, etc. but as others have said make sure you do so slowly. If you make a goal to change your life in a week you will end up on your bed depressed, unable to take the first step.

Practically speaking, playing poker might still make sense. To me this isn't an issue of gambling addiction - you are depressed and your life is aimless/unbalanced. If you fix these you may be able to play poker. If you don't fix these it doesn't matter if you quite poker/get a job/go to school, etc. you will still be unhappy and aimless (since it seems you are clincially depressed this will involve continued professional help/meds).

Most importantly, you MUST realize that you are not DB the poker player who went on a tear at high stakes and made several hundred k in a month - you are Sean, broke, depressed and aimless and 60k in MU. It doesn't matter that you got unlucky and that given another set of circumstances you could have been a 2p2 legend, up millions and crushing high stakes. I don't say this to depress you but to highlight the fact the only way to approach going forward is to realistically assess your current situation. It will only hinder your progress if you constantly have this sense of entitlement in the back of your mind where you "should be up 500k". You aren't, it sucks, but that is the reality. You need to forget about where you were and forge a new path.

Gl, life is pretty amazing and things will definitely get better. Look at this as the catalyst that you needed to balance and improve your life for the better.

good post!

nas says:
when you're four years in the game, we can have a conversation,
eight years in the game, i'll invite you on vacation,
ten years in the game, after i've enjoyed my fame, only then i'll let you pick my brain...

luckily for you phil doesn't follow that credo. can't get much better advice in this thread than what jman posted.

i'll throw my 2c in. to me it sounds like your fear of people/going outside is a MUCH MUCH bigger obstacle than your poker game ATM. i would do everything in your power (pills, psychologists, etc.) to conquer that fear--so much of what's good about life posted in this thread depends on you getting over interactions/outdoor spaces, etc.

its mind-boggling to me that you would even consider NOT going back to school. there are so many positive benefits and you're still young enough to make it worthwhile. i would not trade my college experience for $10M (the education, the interaction with other smart, young, interesting people, the parties, the extracurricular activities, the clubs, etc.). It's so so so worthwhile. And you can still be a boss and do school at the same time, IMO.

But it seems, like Phil said, you are so far from even being able to consider doing that that it's best just to concentrate on baby steps.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned heavily that you can do immediately is read. Read whatever interests you, fiction, non-fiction, anything that will challenge you and hold your attention. You can lose yourself in books, and improve your mind in ways that you might not be able to do right now given your psychological issues.

One last thing that could help you kill two (fear of people, poker) birds with one stone is setting up a home game (for low stakes can be like $5 dollar buy in or w/e) with your friends. Play a SNG, play goofy games, play whatever, just have fun playing the game and remember how beautiful of a game it is. Seems like it might help you get out of your funk and also you can hang out with friends to boot.

Anyways, gl, and see you at the tables sometime soon.
dlpnyc21

I don't really have friends. If I did going outside would be easier.

^this makes going to college all the better of an idea. Should help you get friends and help you with social problems.