Kind of an odd situation, I was waiting for a 2/3 NLH holdem seat and started a new table and on my way they opened a new 1/2 PLO table right next to it and were short on players so I thought that would be more fun and hopped on that instead.

So we're only 5 handed.

Hero has $280, SB about $200, BB covers.

Hero opens to $5 from CO with:

Ac 5c 4s 3s

SB pops it to $15
BB calls
Hero calls

Flop:
Tc 5s As

SB bets $20
BB raises to $80
Hero folds.
SB folds.

In game im thinking im up against top 2 with a better flush draw. Then after folding im wondering if he just has a naked set of 10s in which case I shouldve went with the hand all the way, but not sure.

It was a good experience, I made a couple good bluffs in smallish pots and made a nut flush for a bigger pot. Nobody else bluffed at all, they were just nut peddling. The table broke after about 20 mins as players got called to the main PLO table, but I managed to make about $130 and they gave us all back our $8 for the timed rake.

Anyone?

Gotta give PLO Players a chance to wake up on a Monday .. I don't do screen time on weekends! A bit picky .. but you didn't really 'open', you limped (in PLO).

What did you see in the following hands that would make you think this was a call or fold? That's the part of PLO that is so important. There's more gambling with 100bb or less stacks so it's very possible that you should never fold Aces Up/Gutter against this Player Pool. But on the other side these may be Players would would never 'pot' without a made hand on this Board .. and you have to hold against two of them (maybe).

Your 2pr can be beat and/or get counterfeited via the Board or draw. A deuce is a nut card, but only 3 are safe.

Do you know the SB? The Flop bet is 'ok' but small in a multi-way pot .. could be they are betting based on NL thinking?

I'm fine going either way. You block two of the flush cards, but then again this is TTxx a lot.

Your choice .. how's your mind going to be if you lose this BI in PLO when you came to play NL? GL

Definitely not folding this - without running numbers I bet you're an equity favorite over his range even if he's on the nitty side here.

It's fine to get it in. Call is also an option though jam is probably better.

Really Hero doesn't run into too many poor equity scenarios except ones where villain has better made hand and bigger flush draws, and a lot of those may be like close races. Or villlain could be taking an aggro line with like kqjt.

Might play around with this more in the sim later but mostly not folding unless other player is overly tight.

this is actually a closer spot than it seems. while it's hard for hero to be totally crushed, it's also hard to come up with a reasonable hand for BB that we are better than a flip with. we are a small dog to a hand like AKJ8 with spades, we are flipping with AT or TT with no spade draw, or with inside wrap + spades. we are obviously ahead of A5 with no spades or T5, but those are less likely to be raising hands for BB. do we really think BB is ever raising with, like KQJ and one high spade blocker? tougher opponents may find that raise shorthanded, but against ABC live low stakes PLO players, i don't see that very often. combine this with the fact that we don't know yet what SB will do, and i don't think folding is a huge mistake here.

Ran a sim in PPT, and even against a tight range Hero is likely to have 41.5%. To stack off profitably Hero needs about 47%.

It is more complicated since SB can continue in theory, even though it seems unlikely given the action. Hero equity is often worse if it stays 3w but sometimes he still has 33%+.

But this the type of hand I would be very hesitant to lay down at low-stakes. Also there is a chance villain folds hands like a5, at or 55 to a jam, which is a big win for Hero.

So while I agree fold is ok in theory if Hero is very confident in reads, I would recommend jam>call>fold and since jam is maybe like a $10 ev loss on average if we give villain a tight range, i'm really not sweating it.

I would call, keeping in sb is probably better for your EV.

Thanks for the responses. I did think i shouldve jammed afterwards when SB folded.

SB is pretty loose, and fairly passive.

BB that raised is a loose player that plays in these games often, but hes also very passive.

Im thinking he has TT a lot or AT, and if he also has spades im not looking too good, and then theres the chance SB comes along w spades and im drawing pretty thin vs that.

If it wasnt my first time playing PLO live maybe i stick it in but I was up and it was a must move table so I knew id be moved to 2/3 NLH soon so i kept my profit

This would've ended the thread pretty quickly. Passive Players who show aggression always have 'something' .. even in PLO. You just need to decide if they have your 'somethings' beat or blocked.

How are you drawing thin to SB if they have a flush draw? Aren't you ahead with 2 blockers and a nut gutter most of the time? You also state that SB is loose/passive and yet they opened PF and c-bet OOP. This is also a bad-ish spot when they can now act behind you. Player tendencies are very important in PLO, that's why I mentioned the small-ish c-bet. They very well could have KKxx of flush and you have them crushed.

One thing that I've noticed over the years is that 'we' lower stakes Players are way more worried about flush draws than the big-time Pros are, especially in NL. A big part of that is that lower stake Players are attracted to suited cards, but it's still 'hard' to make a flush!

You made a good 'mental health' fold and that's fine. It's actually pretty good that you recognized the trouble you may have been in. The one think about PLO is that opportunity comes along a lot more often than in NL, so going with your gut and being wrong doesn't stick with you as long since there's another hand very quickly. GL

It wasnt until after reading through the comments when i really started to think more and more about villains tendencies and started to piece together that they were pretty passive, and i may have been realizing that subconsciously during the hand and led me to make a gut fold.

And i meant i wasnt worried about just a flush draw as i wouldve been happy to get it in, i was more thinking about if im already behind one player with TT or AT AND have my redraw to the flush dominated too, then im in really bad shape.

Im not as sure in the close spots in omaha as i am in holdem but im playing omaha more and more recently and finding it a much better money maker as people are making way bigger mistakes in this game vs holdem.

Safe for whom? I believe the 2s gives him a steel wheel

I mean if we're going to get picky, you can either open limp or open raise. Opening means to be the first to voluntarily put money into the pot. Also if the blinds are 1/2 then surely $5 is an open raise, unless they have some sort of bring in system in place.

Anyway fine to give up facing bet and raise IMO. WP op.

5 is the bring in for this game. You can open raise to 7. So really no difference, the amount of players that will call or raise is the same, so there is no reason to throw in more than 1 red chip and slow the game down w the dealer making change for 5 people.

You should have included this information. You didn’t open, you limped in. Sb didn’t 3b and bb didn’t cold call a 3b. That changes ranges and would make me more inclined to stack off by either calling or raising flop.

It's unusual for PLO to be a white chip game .. it's so much easier on the Dealers if you keep everything in 5's.

IMO it's even more unusual for there to be a $5 min bring-in and yet still allow a raise to $7 .. what's the difference between $4 and $5 if you're going to use white chips anyway? Interesting.

It really doesn't matter to me .. I rarely say (or even bet) 'pot' when I play just to keep the game moving by eliminating the math in a lot of spots. GL