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Deep Stacked Aces OOP Deep Stacked Aces OOP

09-30-2024 , 10:55 AM
Playing a fairly aggressive 8 max online game with a few very deep players. I cover the table.

1/2/4 blinds. I am UTG with AAK2. Raises are very common in this game from some super laggy players, and I have been limp re-raising a lot of hands when I had a smaller stack when it's a lot easier to just get it all in on the flop. I've done this with a lot of hands besides aces, so it's not a guarantee I'll have aces, but I hate telegraphing I likely have aces when they are kind of shitty ones like this one (hey I got a suit and a broadway and a wheel possibility!) against good players when I'm out of position, especially this deep.

I cover the table. I recently won a massive 3 way all in pot against V1 with top 2 vs. 2 people with wraps that held.

There's a guy posting the BB ($2) who folds, CO calls ($440), Button (V1) has $2940 makes it $26. BB calls ($176), Straddle folds, I make it $116, CO calls, and button calls. BB now rips the rest of his stack in for a total of $176, action is closed, and I call as do the other 2.

Seems like I should have considered the small stack and re-raised less to allow re-opening the action if he shoves. Reraise to 100 here could have saved me a lot of trouble. This guy jams and I can re-pop it and get SPR down a lot.

Pot $712

Flop is 932. Not the worst flop, but SPR 4 here is a bit tricky.

I check, and CO ships it for $262. Button calls $262. Is it a punt to ship? I can make it $1500 here and commit myself. I take the cowards path and just flat. Never folding here.

Turn is 7. A pretty good turn here. I am ready to C/R jam here if the Button bets but also happy to just see a river. I check, he checks.

Turn is 5. I check, he bets $200. Pot odds so good here, but I don't think he's bluffing an empty sidepot very often. I probably need to call here every time.



So how badly did I misplay every street?
Deep Stacked Aces OOP Quote
09-30-2024 , 05:23 PM
I think with the button making it 26 calling is better here - you're insanely deep and shouldn't be 3bing OOP with this hand. On the flop I'd probably bet - we need protection, and there shouldn't be many sets/two pairs out there. As played would just call the 262 - jamming is terrible. On the river I'd fold - he's literally never bluffing. I think as stack sizes increase position becomes more important - 3b ranges should change dramatically this deep OOP. On the flip side you should be 3bing very wide IP this deep - raising the stakes with position is always advantageous
Deep Stacked Aces OOP Quote
09-30-2024 , 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfan655
I think with the button making it 26 calling is better here - you're insanely deep and shouldn't be 3bing OOP with this hand. On the flop I'd probably bet - we need protection, and there shouldn't be many sets/two pairs out there. As played would just call the 262 - jamming is terrible. On the river I'd fold - he's literally never bluffing. I think as stack sizes increase position becomes more important - 3b ranges should change dramatically this deep OOP. On the flip side you should be 3bing very wide IP this deep - raising the stakes with position is always advantageous
I could see him betting a hand like tens here just as a possibility to get me off a bigger pair at low cost, and possibly be ahead of the small stacks and scoop the main. He clearly has *something* but I think he also plays 2 pair pretty strong, unless he hits a straight on the river or maybe 55 hits trips or something weird. But even then I think he bets bigger with that. It was a real fishy bet.

These games run pretty wild, so I was hoping maybe someone would 4 bet and I could rip it. Obviously the smallest stack did, and I was stuck just calling.

Turn picking up the flush draw is it worth betting here? Pot is like $2000 and we are playing for $2500. I shouldn't be *that* afraid of stacking off, I'm only in dreadful shape against a set, and even then not *that* bad. I could definitely see button having 99 here and playing it as he did.

As for shipping the flop, trying to think where it makes sense. I block 2 pair combos. I'm not *that* far ahead of a pair and 3 live cards. I'm hating life if he has 99, 33, or 22, but does he slowplay 22/33 here? I think he's happy to just rip it.

On the flop - if I did make a smaller 3 bet here to allow the 4-bet jam from a small stack, I can make it $625 preflop, either $475 calls and V1 folds and I'm OK with that, or he calls and I have an SPR of 1 on the flop and I'm stacking off regardless of the flop barring just the absolute worst flops. I do feel my re-pot was the worst choice possible (was also kind of hoping the 400 guy would ship, which makes it easier too).

Am I better off betting the turn? Felt like this was the biggest mistake. I got too cute thinking he would be more likely to make a move after I checked twice. I played it passively and low variance.

Results: V1 had 9885hhh, binked 2 pair on the river. 400 guy had KK45ddd (great flop for him to ship), other guy had KQJ3dc.

I figure if I ship the turn he is calling with top pair, gutshot, trip draw, and flush draw and I lose my ass if I'm being results oriented, but I had overwhelming equity against him there and his likely range there.
Deep Stacked Aces OOP Quote
09-30-2024 , 06:37 PM
Flop is a ship, river is a fold.

Almost all turn cards suck. You have a pair blocker and NBDFD and ofc overpair which gives you enough equity. All two pairs are very unlikely as are sets. If the only big stack has managed to bink top set in a 4 SPR pot, good for him. It's much more likely that he has T9x,98x etc. especially since he doesn't raise (not that he should raise with top set but some random two pairs yes). You're OOP. Time to gambool and many of 9x even fold here (all 9x with pocket pairs pretty much like 977-KK9 which is not insignificant part of his range).

When you ship on the flop you're not playing against 3 other players but the deep player's call range to 1/3 flop donk.

River is an exploitative fold because regs just never bluff here like this.

Last edited by Imaginary F(r)iend; 09-30-2024 at 06:44 PM.
Deep Stacked Aces OOP Quote
10-01-2024 , 05:35 AM
Making it 116 instead of 100 is a huge blunder. As played just check rip the flop.
Deep Stacked Aces OOP Quote
10-01-2024 , 05:06 PM
Postflop you got to wager the maximum at every point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
Making it 116 instead of 100 is a huge blunder. As played just check rip the flop.
Not at all a 'huge' blunder. Maybe a small to medium mistake at most.
Deep Stacked Aces OOP Quote
10-01-2024 , 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz
Postflop you got to wager the maximum at every point.



Not at all a 'huge' blunder. Maybe a small to medium mistake at most.
If we get to make it 730 pre we have a trivial pot flop and he has to fold away all his equity and we win a big pot instead of the fumbling around that happened here.
Deep Stacked Aces OOP Quote
10-02-2024 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
There's a guy posting the BB ($2) who folds, CO calls ($440), Button (V1) has $2940 makes it $26. BB calls ($176), Straddle folds, I make it $116, CO calls, and button calls. BB now rips the rest of his stack in for a total of $176, action is closed, and I call as do the other 2.
Here is the most important actions. Almost everyone who plays sees this type of things live and online where the micro stack gets it in. It is your job to make bet sizes that either close the action or keep the action open based on a goal. In tournaments there are times when you might want to have the action closed or in cash/tournament you have bad position in the hand. But here, it was a huge blunder to bet so much that the micro stack going in closed the action.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
Making it 116 instead of 100 is a huge blunder. As played just check rip the flop.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
If we get to make it 730 pre we have a trivial pot flop and he has to fold away all his equity and we win a big pot instead of the fumbling around that happened here.
Exactly. AAxx is going to be your biggest winner by far in PLO. Being able to get it in on most flops and realize equity is the easiest way to play well. It also many times has the biggest fold equity for others played this way. This method also helps emotionally.
Deep Stacked Aces OOP Quote
10-02-2024 , 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
If we get to make it 730 pre we have a trivial pot flop and he has to fold away all his equity and we win a big pot instead of the fumbling around that happened here.
If we spend a few extra seconds on every round of action to ensure that if someone is able to reopen the action and then size down a little and then they reopen the action with sufficient frequency to justify the reduction in value that comes from charging less than pot, then yes, this is a big mistake to make.
Deep Stacked Aces OOP Quote
Today , 02:25 PM
Solver says to pot the flop basically 100% of the time even a lot of times with overs and high run downs if we’re HU as we have a ton of FE and can also hit runner runners.

We block a two, he should so rarely have two pair here as his 3Bs rarely hit this flop hard. We can also hit back door draws, 2 pair ourselves. As played I mean it’s weird why he would check the turn here with a straight but if he’s not bluffing a dry side pot then it’s gross so I guess I’d fold.

Here’s a video that can help you develop some strategies vs really aggressive players that really focuses on pot control and playing right but really aggressive. I hope it helps!

Destroy Aggressive PLO Players with This Game-Changing Strategy!

https://youtu.be/PLXVyjNHVvY?si=RhNUpzAA8FmoUo7X
Deep Stacked Aces OOP Quote

      
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