2/2 5 Card PLO with $5 button straddle. Been a crazy game with 2 maniacs pushing the action and several 2K to 5K pots in the last two hours.

V1 (utg) - One of the maniacs that just lost a massive pot with a crap holding. Only has $600 left. V2 (otb) is an all over the place reg sitting with 3K. Hero (mp) covers. V2 is the main actor and has already played some weird hands as he tries to be too tricky at times. Slowed played sets on non dry boards, pushed action with 2nd nut str8/flush and has twice in the last 30 minutes slow played flopping a nut str8 that held thru the river by just calling down both times. Both times he also slow rolled on the river when chopping with the nut str8 after the first player to act showed the same hand. Both times the entire table thought the first to show was taking down the pot only to see V2 roll over the same hand after about 20-30 seconds.

Preflop - SB calls, BB raises to 20, V1 raises to 60, hero calls in MP with A8877 (A7h/87s/8c), V2 calls on button, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop - Jd 7c 2d, hero flops middle set with no redraws or back doors and 2 diamonds on board with no blockers other than 88
BB checks, V1 bets $200 leaving about $340 behind, Hero makes it $800, V2 thinks for 10-15 secs and flats the $800, BB folds, V1 calls of the rest

Turn - 3s

Hero? - V2 has about $2200 left and I cover

Would probably ship to charge diamonds/wraps now, even though he could be slowplaying top set, but I would probably flat the first bet and not bloat the pot so much on the flop.

Well , your not folding now ...unless the flush comes.

This isn't bbv. Fold pre if you don't know how to proceed.

I guess mom didn't make the meatloaf the way you like it tonight? Clowns like you are why I stopped posted in this forum many years ago until posting again recently. You clearly don't understand 5 card PLO very well, so I don't know why you are even commenting to begin with. 90%+ of your posts are about degenerate sports gambling, so stick with what you know loser.

Back to the real PLO players - I have real concerns here about running into top set, especially when I am blocking hands like A 10 9 8 X with nut diamonds, which is about the only draw that should be just flatting a bet like this on the flop. Both of us sitting pretty deep for a 2/2/5 game is what made it a difficult decision as well.

If we bet pot on turn, we are committed, so no decisions to be made.

If we lead for say $500 and V2 shoves, hero?

If we check and villain pots it, hero?

If we check and villain bets $500, hero?

Thank you for the response. Whether right or wrong, the reason I essentially potting the flop is that I didn't want draws to come along and/or have 4 ppl see the turn and have a J, 10, 9, 8 come that would make it more difficult to play with V2 in position and so deep. I was happy taking down the $1300-$1400 pot from V1 as I was positive he was drawing very thin against me and was calling the extra $340 regardless of his holding.

I understand your concern but feel like Hero is more or less commited to jam now. Blocking the 8 is not that relevant here, we still unblock all of the overpair + nut flush draw type combos, and many other combos that can continue.

We can consider alternative lines on the flop, but I think this hand is a clear fold pre-flop.

Hero is giving up a ton of equity and fold equity by checking when villain does not have top set.

Thank you for the response and feed back. I don't think I can fold this hand pre though in this crazy lineup with 2 maniacs and 3-4 players that will commit 2K-3K with top two, dummy-end str8 draws, non-nut flush draws, etc. You are burning money in this game if you do. V2, although he can take weird lines, is not one of those players unfortunately, otherwise it is a no brainer.

I agree 100% with your last statement. In real time it sure felt like top set the way he played the hand though.

Question - What 'many other combos' can continue if I block the 10 9 8 wrap to go with the nut flush draw? There are no other draws, are there? I don't think an over pair with the nut flush draw is enough to stack off there heads up for the majority of the pot when it was pretty obvious I had a set. Am I wrong on that thinking?

Mid set is tricky multi-way with money left to play for. With some back up I like a raise more since we are no longer drawing dead to top set in case we run into it.

I greatly disagree with your hand evaluation methodology.

Middle and small pairs are not desirable in 5 card multiway.

A8877 has limited nut potential aside from the nut flush. Hero is calling a 3! not closing the action. I would rather speculate with connected high cards even without a pair. And if i am playing a less connected hand, i would still prefer more board coverage. A hand like aj964 for example. Or at765.

For additional combos, I think you need to start accounting for redraw effects. Backdoor flush is very meaningful, as are connected cards that can add straight draws on favorable turns.

So a hand like aqqtx, akkxx with backdoor clubs and broadway redraws are strong. But opponents will also have weaker redraws. Wheel redraw, 45xx, 65xx, 86xx can still add meaningful equity and give villain a better price to draw against a set on some turns.

I think you should be more willing to fold this hand in a crazy game because of the greater chance of a 4bet than a typical game. Are you calling again if you call and someone 4bets behind you?

Even with this lineup, you should be playing fewer hands from MP than OTB.

If we assume that it is pretty obvious that hero has a set and V2 is sophisticated enough to know that and fold bottom set on the flop, what is his likely range here?

The only thing i would add to my previous comment is that is villain is playing a disciplined range pre-flop he may profitably continue with something like 75% or more of his nut flush draws, because good hands are going to have redraws often.