Has anyone gotten the Advanced PLO Mastery course by Dylan Weisman? I know hes a great player and Im looking for a good course that will still working in 2023. I mainly will be playing live and want a course that obviously will be very beneficial and up to date. Any other courses I should consider?

Advanced PLO is solver based, so it will always be up to date. How much PLO experience do you have? It is advanced and I know when I first got it most of it went over my head because I had only 100k hands of PLO experience . Personally I would start with Richard Gryko(RIO) videos , as he has a similar approach to the game as Chris and Dylan and is much cheaper. If you want more after that get APLOM because it is very good.

Thank you very much that helps alot

Hi, I was wondering if anyone who took this class has or is willing to make the flash cards for the ranges they talk about. I don’t want to make them myself (terrible hand writing) and was hoping someone knew where I could access or buy them. Willing to purchase them from someone if they are willing to do it

In which video does he talk about it? Maybe I'll make them.

They're pretty simple, just find the bottom of your raising range and top of your folding range for each spot. CO 100bbs for example: I'm opening T654ds,AQ53ss,JJ76ss....and folding T985ds,AQ52ss,JJ65ss...

Tbh I haven't really looked at them since I made them, since you learn a lot by simply making them!

You're playing T654ds but folding T985ds?

The main issue I have with flash cards or any rote learning is that it doesn't take into account who's left to act behind us. My ranges will look different if there's a fishy maniac in the button or the blinds, or a bad tag, or a good lag, etc. Not taking that sort of stuff into account is leaving money on the table.

This is so wrong.

Everyone memorized a set of starting hands at some point. I did it in holdem, Omaha, stud, and so did you. Learning to adjust these ranges based on the specific situation is obviously important but this doesn’t mean you shouldn’t start with a baseline range and GTO certainly provides a very solid base created from first principles.

In your example yes your ranges will be different but not drastically different. If your baseline open from button is 45% of hands you might be singing 43-48% or at most maybe up to like 50-55% if there are nits in the blinds.

Yea, you can argue that you are going to change the composition of your range based on a lag or some other player type and I agree with you but again, these adjustments are on the margins. Learning the gto range by rote teaches you where these margins are and now you can learn to make the adjustments.

You’ve got what 15-20 years experience? What about people with one month or two months? Arguing that learning something by rote is wrong is wrong. Learn something, anything, it’s a start. Build from that when you know enough to make adjustments.

I'm a little confused as to what part exactly of my post you think is wrong?

I never memorized any set of starting hands. PLO wasn't taught like that when I was coming up ~15 years ago. I vaguely learnt starting hand charts when I was trying to learn sngs and 6max nlhe cash.

My argument in general, whether it comes to flash cards, or learning GTO spots, is that learning things by rote stunts your development. That one learns faster and better when one is allowed to make mistakes, but then learn from those mistakes, leading to understanding the reasons behind why they're mistakes. If you try to learn the reasons behind a thing, you can generalize those reasons on the fly and work out what to do in different circumstances better.

There is certainly an argument that these days, with the standard so much higher than it was when I first started out, if you're starting from scratch, and you don't understand postflop playability or the value of position and so on, then you maybe go broke before you get a chance to learn the reasons behind what you do. So maybe there's a place for them. But ultimately, long term development is slowed down by this line of thinking.

I disagree with all of this. I disagree with the premise that starting hand charts stunt development and I strongly believe exactly opposite. I disagree that learning by failing is the most efficient method to learn.

Whoever you consider to be the top 10 poker players in the world right now, I'd be willing to bet that no more than 1 or 2 ever learned starting hand charts.

While poker doesn't give useful feedback, where other games or sports do, meaning it's entirely plausible for plenty of people not to even know they're making mistakes, let alone learn from them, in general we learn quickest and best from making mistakes. It's a very common thing for high stakes players to take on people HU that they know are better than them, with the intention of learning. It's talked about as 'paying for an education'. It has to be done with care and attention rather than just saying 'I'm going to jump up stakes and take a shot'.

Maybe, but knowing starting hand charts has done wonders for my understanding of the price of tea in China.

How long exactly did you two date for again, I can’t remember. ����

For PLO only? I guess it probably doesn't matter, because I'd bet against you anyway.

Maybe you mean something closer to "no good pros have memorized preflop charts without any understanding about anything post flop" ... but that seems like an obvious strawman, and nobody is arguing that anyone try that.


Maybe, once you have enough knowledge to learn from them.

Yes, because like many games you want to play people a little better than you or you'll get destroyed with no idea why and no real opportunity to learn (because the gap between what you are doing and what they are doing is huge).
Having a solid understanding of what hands can be played profitably from what positions will help to close that gap.

Lol, ok mate, not sure why you feel the need to start off this message so aggressively, do I come across as someone who thinks of themself as top 10 in the world at PLO?

I meant what I said, or at least what my question implies. I doubt that any of the top 10 poker players in the world ever even looked at a preflop hand chart.

It's about acceleration. If you want to get from 0-30 as fast as possible, use hand charts. If you want to get from 0-100, learn about what different features of starting hands make them more or less playable and how that interacts with position and your opponents' tendencies. Starting hands may work well as shortcuts, but unless you just abandon them as soon as you understand the reasons behind them, you will reduce your likelihood of significant further development across the board. If you want to learn a language, learning vocab rote is the worst way to do it. The best way is to go to the country and get a local partner and not be afraid to make mistakes. The analogy doesn't track 100%, of course, but it's still useful.

I really want to learn Swedish

Swedish is hard. Spain is better. While swedish girls might stick a finger up your bum during sex, they're generally going to be a lot more boring in bed. You want hispanic fire.

Haha

“snälla peg inte tack”

Optimal line for dating swedish chicks?