Hi all,

5/5/25 button straddle $50 sb blind raise and there are a couple limps before co isos $200 and btn calls. Hero is in the sb straddle with AAKKJ triple suited nut diamonds and naked As and makes it $800 $8,000 eff. Both Vs call. Before good reg on btn calls he says “you’re deep and out of your comfort zone, I call.”

Flop ($2,500): 6-2-2r. Hero figures he has the best hand a lot here and bets small, $525, and only the Btn calls. We have all the best two pair combos and I think we shouldn’t meet much resistance on such a dry flop. But what do you know V floats.

Turn ($3,550): Ts. Hero? In game I checked and V tanked and bet $2,100 after asking how much I have again. Seems suspect but he isn’t exactly a nit preflop either so he could have a 2 or 62/66. He could have have been floating with less to put me in bad spots on later streets, “out of my comfort zone” as he said.

Thanks,
DT

Shitty spot. Against players who will tend to float such boards against a perceived overpair-heavy range, I would probably check the flop a lot here though. As played, well, you either play for stacks (by calling down) with just one pair or fold, as I can't see calling turn and not calling most rivers being a reasonable play (if the V is capable enough of floating the flop just to bluff turn, he should bluff a lot of rivers). You are virtually dead against TT/66/2x, all of which are in V:s range, however you crush all of his bluffs, so I guess this just makes it a question of wanting to play a levelling game for stacks or not. I don't like raising, since we'll only get called when crushed and there are so few cards that we need to protect our equity against, so I would go for a fold or a call, but if I call I know that I will be forced to bluff-catch a whole lot of rivers with just a pair.

I think if we bet we should bet bigger - there's some thin value for 1 street and will protect against villain floats, esp when villain closes out the action in position. You can check but you allow people to realize their equity - maybe I prefer a bigger bet. As played you're in a terrible spot - he has more 66/2x then you, and if he's capable/creative he'll be floating here a fair amount of the time against perceived overpair.

There's no point betting the flop, especially after his pre-flop comment: he's floating with any 4 because he thinks he'll be able to push you off the hand. This board isn't likely to hit your 3-betting range, and you'll be betting AKQJ, QJT9, etc, hands to take down the pot, all of which will likely fold a lot of turns. In his spot, (in theory) I'm also floating any 4. I'm not really sure what I'd do on the turn without any read on the guy. From what you've said, I can say I don't like calling unless I'm going to call a ton of rivers, but I'm also not terribly interested in playing a huge pot here.

The fact that it started multiway adds an interesting dynamic, but given stack sizes, I'm trying to control the pot size more than worrying about denying equity since I'm only really "worried" about 3456 type hands, which aren't likely to fold the flop anyway. Pushing out a hand whose only equity is from backdoor draws isn't worthwhile given how deep you are IMO.

Yes this is a very good starting hand. However if V is correct that we will not realize our equity enough when we miss the flop if we bloat the pot with a three bet we are better off not putting in the three bet. Especially as V seems to know hero well enough to take advantage of how much the three bet described our hand. As is very easy in 5 card for him to have a 2 that created a flush draw or a 23456 type hand that felt the advantages he would have post flop in correctly folding/betting offset your current hand advantage. Is V normally talkative? Seems like a sentence designed to induce a call.

So you’d flat your entire range preflop here? I guess one benefit is if a shorter stack limper decides to squeeze we’re in a great position to put in the back raise or even jam.

Yes given the table dynamics and stacks I would. SPR would be under 13 regardless so we can get it in when we hit and it is much more likely a hand like AQxxx will pay off our top set on a AQx flop for stacks then if we three bet with this hand given from the talk here and other posts you have a fairly narrow three bet range. If you had 1K rather than 8K I'd favor ripping and betting/calling any flop. As is there is enough play after the flop to justify calling with a worse hand but one that does not share many/any cards with your assumed range and actual hand and putting pressure when your range misses.

3b is obv the highest EV play preflop but I could understanding wanting to keep the pot small due to you being so deep and if the amount of money in play makes you uncomfortable.

Flop is generally pretty good for you, one of them has (2,66) around 20% of the time. I don't mind your play so far, provided you also have some check/traps on the turn.

As played, I'm calling this turn bet but folding to further action on the river. I think enough good things can happen (e.g. you improve, he shuts down, river card scares him)

Polarbear is spot on here. Nothing more to add.

Last night I got a similar spot limped AA764ss in ep with $7k eff. a couple more deep stacks limped then a $2.5k stack potted $325, on me I flatted and the deep stacks came in behind. If I re-potted there’s no guarantee the raiser would jam and I’d be in a pickle out of position against the field with a low spr multi-way. The flop came KQ4 and I check folded.

I thought about the above hand and sorta regretted not potting pre hoping the original raiser would jam and I could get it in. Thoughts?

And if he doesn't, you're out of position in a bloated pot that you're gonna feel compelled to contest while being very deep. I'm not particularly good at or comfortable with deep-stacked play, but that's not a position I want to be in.

Why are you regretting not losing more money? Let's suppose you pot, raiser pots, and everyone else folds. What do you think your equity is on this flop vs a standard 4 bet range? And that is your best case as you will realize your equity here with AA if it is good whereas if raiser does not pot you are likely in the same spot as in the hand. I think you played the hand well.

Its ok to flat weaker aa - aakj is much stronger multiway than a764. (Not to say we can't ever flat better aa but it should be less often)

But against a 2.5k stack we should still raise sometimes - because if he re-raises we can jam.

My personal rule guide for these spots.
1. I am super deep.
2. I am OOP.
3. I am up against strong opponents.
I will never bloat pre. Even with the strongest possible holdings.

If any of the above are not true, then there is a case for potting pre.

I learned this lesson the hard way very early on in my playing days. I had just congratulated myself on building the biggest stack I had ever done -- at the time this was like $2k after buying in for $500. I potted pre with A'sDS and get 1 highly competent caller. The flop was 3 low cards.... yada yada I lost my stack, but learned a very +ve EV mistake that I have never repeated.

Is one pre-flop raise what you consider to be "bloating the pot"?

Fair challenge.
Actually I do and acknowledge that this may be very flawed thinking. But I do struggle playing OOP when I’m not super connected to the board and very deep. I also acknowledge that I may be missing value by not betting my strong hands pre… even OOP.