Hi all,

This hand the blind utg $50 raise is on and there are several limps before it gets to hero in the straddle who has AAK77 nut diamonds naked Ah. Hero pots to $400, two action players call. Hero started with $1325 and after the raise spr is under 1 as hero has $925 behind. It's been a typical losing session today of getting our sets outdrawn and getting our AA cracked by rundowns and we are 8 hours into our session and not super fresh so yeah, this hand might be a trainwreck.

Flop($1400): 468hhs. We don't flop any additional equity but we at least block a portion of Vs' calling ranges with our 77s and Ah. Could just ship here and live with the results with spr this low, even though three ways. Whether they will fold any sort of flush draw plus pair or two pair is questionable. Being multiway, hero decides to check and they both check behind.

Turn: Th, so our Ah blocker gets there. This is where hero has a decision between bluffing or giving up. Would we check the nut flush draw this shallow on the flop? Can we rep the nut flush credibly here on the turn? It's late into hero's session and we settle on $325, but both Vs call. Sigh.

River ($2,075): 3h. We still have one pair and the nut flush blocker and $600 we could use to buy half a month's worth of medication. I guess hero can shove and pray for them to fold, but given player descriptions not too sure both will let "it" go (whatever that is) for such a small bet relative to the size of the pot. Give up or go for it?

Thanks,
DT

At least one of them should have a flush and I don't think they should fold it OTR here, especially with four hearts out. Might fold out some two pair type hands that chose to go fishing OTT though, but the small turn bet really doesn't set up a good river shove spot at this stack size. Don't understand the turn bet with stacks this shallow - really makes no sense to me, unless having seen this line with nutted hands before I would probably call down with any flush in this spot. I think you should have either jammed the flop, hoping that they haven't flopped you virtually dead, or just checked it down and took the L.

agree with Regen, if we're going to make a move in this hand it's on the flop.

Agree that if we were going to put money in, it should be on the flop.

I would just ship the flop - you want the protection and not allow them to realize their equity. By the river I don't think you'll get flushes to fold especially with so little behind.

I dont ship the flop because there are two action players. Action players dont like folding. And when they dont fold you have shitbox equity.

Same reason for not betting turn.

I've lost a lot of money over the years trying to get action players to fold. These days I'm a bit more nut peddly vs them

You’re blocking the nuts and all the nut draws on flop. You have equity vs 2 pair and have some fold equity. You can get called by hands that are flipping or even dogs. I would ship flop.

Realistically, Hero is potting flop with the majority of flush draws so I wouldn't expect much credit on the turn.

Given SPR i think shove and pray flop is probably correct.

Given this thought, why jam flop if opponents are very likely not going to fold? Blockers don't work against people who don't fold.

Against balanced Vs or even just normal players, I agree with betting pot on the flop, otherwise the story on turn and river looks strange and there is less left behind for them to fold.

we only need like 30 % average equity to stack off, and we have a non zero chance of taking it down on the flop. we're not really jamming as a bluff.

Maybe you misread? I dont jam flop

Ran some sims and it appears that jamming flop can be +EV from purely fold equity alone. If you get called your ****ed though, have around 15% vs a calling range:



I gave a very liberal flop calling range but nothing too unreasonable. The loosest calls included hands like T97: (64) for top wrap plus worst 2p and 53: (khh) for worst OESD with a 2nfd. Did not include naked 2p or naked fd i.e. they needed something else to go along

I meant I agree with your point and was asking the others (which most agree to jam flop) if that would be a profitable move against 2 action players that are unlikely to fold.

i think their flop continuing ranges are probably wider than what you've described.

Yeah I would add any flush draw and any two pair.

I think puke ship is standard but I also don't mind betting 1/4 pot and then folding if both players jam. I would call against a single jam from the last player to act but not the first (first player 'should' have a stronger range as there is still another player left to act). Turns are complicated if we get called, betting 1/3 on flushing cards and jamming the majority of others. Not solver approved btw, just my 2 cents