Hi all,

1/2 $5 bring in plo5, we overlimp the crappy AAJ42 no nut suit in the CO and it limps around.

($35): 33Jddc flop. Checks through. Turn: As, MP bets $25, I raise to $75 right away as we are $1,400 eff. He then 3! the turn to $225 and I tank flat. Heads up.

River ($485): Qc. He bets $300. No real reads yet, I once saw V value bet the second nut flush in position when checked to though so he does not seem like a total nit who is too scared to value bet strong but non-nut hands. He looks like 20-30 youngish white dude with glasses.

With a J in our hand there's one combo of JJ to potentially get value from and QQ3A combos, overplayed A3 and of course the dreaded 33 is out there too. V has $900 behind on the river after his bet and we cover. Flat, raise small to fold to a jam, or jam? Remember, spr started at 40 at the beginning of the hand but by the river it was smaller and this was a limped pot.

Thanks,
DT

I don’t get his sizing, but raise folding seems pointless imho.

It’s possible he raised to turn to see where he was at and when you flatted he’s decided that his boat is the best hand, but you’re in position and there’s a bunch of overboats possible so while I would normally chastise you for being a nit I think this is just a call although it makes me sad.

Not sure the 2nd nut flush analogy is super useful here quite a different spot.

Guess we can level ourselves, oh I’m in late position he thinks I would have raised pre with AAxxx.

So yeah as played I think we should flat, I really can’t see what else he can have unless he’s a complete whale. You raised him on the A and he’s still blasting off, even luckbox QQ has to be conscious that aces full is available, maybe he’s got AJJ?

(Disclaimer: in real time I am almost certain I would have been trapping with my turn flat and then jamming the river after an Oscar worthy performance.)

Curious how we might consider changing our play if he were a black dude with glasses, or asian dude with glasses; what were the glasses like, did they look like they were strong prescription, or is he a hipster with empty frames? Are they varifocals? Is it really bright indoors and they're actually sunglasses? We really need more details to consider.

Against a white dude with glasses I think it's just a call. Against, say, an asian chick with contact lenses, I would probably jam.

Just to be a huge nit, there are exactly 15,180 combos of JJ here.

I would flat otr.

Yeah I get your point. I think we were in an earlier thread about using race to get reads his and I agreed with you then as well, there wasn't much info I had on V this time.

Can V put you on AA here? How common is it in your games for someone to limp along with AA hands?

Looks like JJ trying to get value from a 3 with that river sizing. Id still prob make a nit call without good reads.

Raise pre.

I am much more open to folding quads today than I was in the past but this is not the type of situation where i would ever think about folding.

Mostly calling, but raising can still be reasonable.

ehhh no reads and with the J blocker i guess i probably do flat here, or at least i can see the argument for it in the cold dispassionate light of the internet. raise/fold is clearly the worst idea.

i have flatted top boat on the river with reads a couple times, but against a rando it would be tough ngl.

Im raising here. J blocker irrelevant imo coz 33 is the same combination. Except more JJ exist than 33 due to limping range

Getting in stacks at spr 40 in a limped pot in 5 card with the second nuts is a huge punt.

Lets say his range is 33,JJ only (which it isnt) id guess it would be 70/30 JJ and hes not folding it

From villains perspective:

Getting in stacks at spr 40 in a limped pot in 5 card with the third nuts is a huge punt.

He’s unlikely to bet 3b with JJ on turn imo.

This is why I think it's an easy call otr fwiw. Jamming seems pretty bad

lol you get hung up on race in every thread - what happened to you in life that you're so sensitive? Don't be such a snowflake

Do we really think he is 3! the turn to $225 with quads here in a limped pot that was checked through on the flop? Would you? Why kill your action if your the V and have quads as hero can't have A3 or J3, so hero would either be bluffing or have AA or JJ. If hero is bluffing he is not calling a raise anyway, but if he has AA or JJ, hero is definitely betting the river if V just flats the $75 on turn, where the villain can then jam over top.

With no real reads yet, I am putting him on JJ or A3 and would be raising the river. Most likely GII, but could see making it $700 to be able to minimize your loss if he shoves over top. If he has quads, so be it, lesson learned.

Yes, sometimes. If hero has AA or JJ it’s a good time to start piling.

Making satire does not make one sensitive, if I think something is laughable I will laugh at it

I mean we trying to analyse the line in general I guess not this exact hand, I think raising with quads is the right play vs some players tbh because JJ or AA might pile in now, the check raise on river looks mega strong.

You’d have to be mental to bluff 3 bet the turn and 2/3 pot river in 5 card I think?

Obviously sometimes we look dumb or nitty, but the question is, when we get 3 bet on this turn and then bet into on the river and we have the 2nd nuts on paired A high board what is V calling jam with. We had a really similar discussion about rivers with V nut boat and it’s a little bit the same, like how often is this a value bet with JJ.

I agree, but it seems the majority of the time you are trying to get whatever value you can with quads when it was a limped pot that was checked through on the flop. Trying to maximize value from weakish hands or get someone to bluff at you seems more likely then trying to target those two specific hands no? Although, I think I was concentrating more on whether V has quads or not most of the time rather then if a river raise was the right play regardless. It probably is not, but I do find a lot of players that are not good regs still paying off with JJ and A3 here as there are a lot of bad 5 card players out there.

Slow playing flop makes some sense to let someone hit but people don’t really bluff paired boards multi way in 5 card very often.

call river. raising is terrible