Apologies - not sure best way to post hands from GG? If anyone knows how to export as text, would be appreciated!

Uncertain about flop line in the following - https://gg.gl/bflwn?

Villain an unknown with no hands of note before.

What was the point in 3-betting here? You had nothing pre, (and you failed to connect). With no knowledge of opponent, flat-call the re-raise and dont be afraid to check-fold that flop.

So this is about a top 14% hand - the only point to 4b is if he is 3bing like 30%+ and would call every 4b. I don't think he is so calling the 3b is much better. Your equity on this flop vs the top 15% is 31% - I would x/f here as he'll call your jam with 1 pair and I think he has enough 1 pair hands to call a high % of the time.

Can you provide a source for your numbers please? Particularly your justification for only 4betting if he 3bets 30%+ and calls every 4b.

I'm writing in general terms. I'm not writing specifically about the rake structure at GG (or even lower stakes rake because most players hope to move up in stakes).

Preflop: Nothing was done incredibly wrong by either player, although some improvements could be made.

Hero could have called the 3bet instead of 4betting, but in general terms I don't think it was a huge mistake by a human. Hero should EP open raises about 17% of hands and [AQ][K9] certainly is a good enough hand to include. If Hero find himself out of position to a 3bet, then Hero should fold about 30% of that 17% and now the original 17% is down to 12%. [AQ][K9] should be in that 12%. And of that 12% it should be broken down to something like 3% 4bets (25% total) and 9% call the 3bet (75% total). [AQ][K9] should more likely be in the call a 3bet portion of the range, but unlike the others who are strongly saying it should not be in the 4betting range, I'm not mad at a human for putting this hand in their 4betting range also long as it is most AAxx hands and a few other strong hands.

Villain probably 3bet just slightly too loose and then also probably called the 4bet too loose.

FLOP: The pot is about the same size as the villain's remaining stack. Therefore, the stack to pot ratio (SPR) equals 1. In general terms SPR 1 is the easiest to learn, if you hit a piece of the flop you most have to go with it, or put a different way, if you think you have at least 33% equity go with it. But Hero has nothing on the flop except some over cards and a backdoor flush draw. The flop was not good enough to bet for Hero. As someone else already mention, Villain is doing the same thing at SPR 1 and calling with any board pair, etc. Hero should have check-fold flop.

I think the four bet is clearly wrong. There are no combos of AK that we should be four betting that do not include a pair. I think this has to do with equally blocking AA and KK combos so we are unblocking all of the 5678ds type rundowns that we are 55/45 against, RROO:ds combos we are 50% against, as well as KK type combos where we are like 45/55 against. I think it's more to do with the fact that we have better hands to include in our 4-betting range that are not dominated by an in position 4 bet calling range.

Once we make this mistake and arrive at the flop with an SPR of 1 I really don't hate this shove. We can easily construct a range for the IP player where we have 30% equity on this flop (10%:AA@20, 10%!AA@100) so he need him to fold 3% of the time to our bet for this to breakeven. I agree, this hand, on this flop, is likely bottom of our range but it's not the absolute bottom as we do have a backdoor straight draw and a backdoor flush draw. I agree all top pair + hands are calling, but maybe something like AK56 will fold to our bet. I think this is a spot that it's easy to be very wrong check folding, but unlikely to be really badly wrong when we shove.

Also, I think we need to shove some hands worse than top pair here as we want top pair to call our shoves after we 4-bet.

Long story short - maybe we are shoving our full range here on this type of board after four betting?

Just take the time to type out the hand, it's not hard. Learn the sytanx for ( `:`heart`:`). This is what I do when I post a GGpoker hand history.

* human in game responses

Excellent post as always.

Where we differ is on learning level at PLO25. Low hanging fruit to grab and learn at SPR 1 is if you hit something thing go with it. Hell you could make a chart of reasonable SPR 1, but if you put this this hand in there, then you are just about saying play everything all the time. I'm not a fan. The Don't 4bet with AK probably low hanging fruit that should be learned sooner than later, but I stated, "I'm not mad at a human for putting this hand in their 4betting range also long as it is most AAxx hands and a few other strong hands."

If the readers of my post didn't see trying to give humans some love, then forget I ever wrote it.

I can't fault anyone for making the play in game. It's better to 4b! then it is to fold.

As for the flop, I'm not sure I agree with hit or check/fold in a 4b pot with SPR 1. I simply don't think it's super clear, and so far the thread has been clear, and the op may be thinking oh, I guess I should play fit or fold in these spots, and I think he would be better off just jamming on a super dry board after he four bet oop.

I don't like the jamming for multiple reasons, I'll list three. The points below are not just individual they are cumulative.

The two players started the hands $26.70 effective. Their effective stacks on the flop are now $17.65 which means they have only put in 1/3 of their total stacks so far. Putting in the other 2/3 of the money on a jam with mostly nothing doesn't seem prudent to me. No on is saying fit or fold. But something more specific to justify a bet would be nice. SPR 1 and flop a flush is an easy get it in. SPR 1 and flop bare top two pair and easily get it in. SPR 1 and have [AQ][K9] on flop of J52 with only 3 over cards and a backdoor nut flush draw to jam seem ambitious. Also, there is some non-zero chance the flop gets checked through.

Hero open raised in EP which is the tightest open raise position. The Villain 3bet with a range of about 5% on average. Villain's 5% obviously includes AAxx, it also includes the over pairs KKxx, QQxx, the sets JJxx and something maybe called "2nd over pairs" TTxx and 99xx which are not over pairs to the top card but are over pairs to the second board card. Villain isn't folding over pairs on a dry flop. And maybe no even folding "2nd over pairs." You described it as a super dry board. Villain calling the jam on a super dry board is easy enough with a lot of Villain's range.

This one I almost wasn't going to mention, but it is real, which is tilt. Jamming with almost nothing and losing a stack here when instead you could have only lost 1/3 of a stack creates tilt for a lot of players. The 2+2 section labeled "Poker Blogs & Goals is full of people posting their daily poker experience and it is full of posters ****ed up on a weekly basis by losses. This section of 2+2 is eye opening to the toll losing sessions have on players. Winning is fine and good, but losing is worst. I remember a long time ago a quote from tennis player Ivan Lendl. He said, "I hate losing more than I enjoy winning." Tilt has destroyed more poker players hopes and dreams than anything else.

**** it. This type of hand drives me crazy because it doesn't teach much about SPR. I'm cool with MarkD's, "I think he would be better off just jamming on a super dry board after he four bet oop." I label this hand as a low SPR out of position and you are screwed jam. But that damn sure isn't teaching much about SPR at different numbers higher than SPR 1 where jamming is horrible.

If you are a human prone to overdo jamming flops with no rhyme or reason for doing it or if you are prone to tilt, then don't jam, instead take up backgammon.

Well the 14% can be found in Poker Pro Tools Odds Oracle. The rest of the numbers are ballpark estimations.

Right, I'm not clear on what functionality you've used to get it at 14% though, and furthermore I'm unclear on the logic you've used to get from that to requiring a 30% 3b. Just wondering if you could explain either or both to me please? My playing around on PPT has AKQ9ds as within the top 4% of hands.

ProPokerTools Odds Oracle Results (2.3 Professional)
Omaha Hi, Generic syntax
PLAYER_1 ahqhks9s
PLAYER_2 14%
600000 trials (randomized)


All-in Equity

	Equity %	Wins Hi %	Ties Hi %	Wins Hi Count	Ties Hi Count
ahqhks9s	49.8010%	46.7280%	6.1460%	280368	36876
14%	50.1990%	47.1260%	6.1460%	282756	36876

Flop Jc5h2d

AhQhKs9s

versus

Villain's call a 4 bet range preflop and then only call Hero's flop bet when Villain has a board pair or pocket pair higher than the 5 has Villain about a 75% to 25% favorite.

But against Hero's entire 4 betting range it is about 50% 50%.

While that information is certainly relevant, I'm pretty confident that's not how you tot up the ranking of the hand. There's probably a far better way to do it, but here's how I got to 4%:

Top line says

File Edit Tools Help

click

Tools > Range Explorer > (type in hand) > ranking

to get per number of players ranking.

I did that already and couldn't see how that gives us the rank, or percentile for this hand.

Give me a moment I'm outside and I'm crap at taking screen caps.

Four betting. I think you mean what was the point in four betting. Which I agree on. Your oop and you said you have no history with villain. I think this is a pure call pre fold flop.

What does this show?

The bottom image shows that AKQ9ds is within the top 4% of hands, the top image shows that the intersection between AKQ9ds and the top 3% of hands doesn't exist, showing that AKQ9ds is between the top 3 and 4% of hands somewhere.

There ought to be a qualification that this is for 9max rather than 6max but it's hard to see how that's going to move the needle significantly.