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 PLO overpair + nut flush draw vs c/r  PLO overpair + nut flush draw vs c/r

05-17-2012 , 06:56 PM
So I think I messed this one up but I'm not sure. For me pre-flop seems straight forward, we have nut flush potential and we're looking to flop a set of kings and overset someone or proceed cautiously if we have a bare overpair.

When he checks to me on the flop I just assumed he isn't very strong because most big draws/sets will bet and try to get it in. So with an overpair and the nut flush draw I'm happy betting for value.

My problem when he check raises is I'm not sure where I'm at and if I have enough of a hand to stack off this deep.

Part of me thinks it's a trivial stack off because he would've bet a straight or a set so he probably has a worse draw. But I can imagine him having a set or straight here, but with our hand we're not really in bad shape vs anything?

We have a stack to pot ratio of 8.3 if I'm working it out correctly. There's a chart in Jeff Hwang's book 'Advanced PLO Volume 1' and in this chart it gives different SPR's and ranges for stacking off.

So a similar example from this chart is AAxx on a K72 board with the NFD which is similar to this hand except there is potential for a made straight and also doesn't take into account the fact we've been c/r.

So it says that it's pretty much okay to stack off with this hand with a SPR of between 0-4 but it's more of a judgement decision between 4-13 and we're closer to the top end of that scale.

Bit lost but I'm feeling like I should just stack off here.

    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #12910172

    SB: $65.45 (261.8 bb)
    BB: $7.50 (30 bb)
    UTG: $27.41 (109.6 bb)
    MP: $24.50 (98 bb)
    CO: $8 (32 bb)
    Hero (BTN): $25.06 (100.2 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with A K K 7
    CO posts BB OOP, UTG folds, MP raises to $1.10, CO folds, Hero calls $1.10, 2 folds

    Flop: ($2.80) 7 J 9 (2 players)
    MP checks, Hero bets $2.67, MP raises to $10.68, Hero folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: $8.14 pot ($0.37 rake)
    Final Board: 7 J 9
    MP mucked and won $7.77 ($4 net)
    Hero mucked A K K 7 and lost (-$3.77 net)



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    Last edited by Carlos_Tevez; 05-17-2012 at 07:04 PM.
     PLO overpair + nut flush draw vs c/r Quote
    05-17-2012 , 07:06 PM
    Don't listen to jeff hwang

    please please please 3b pre

    flop bet is good, fold unless he's some kind of ******
     PLO overpair + nut flush draw vs c/r Quote
    05-17-2012 , 07:12 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yrmom
    Don't listen to jeff hwang

    please please please 3b pre

    flop bet is good, fold unless he's some kind of ******
    Haha what's up with the Hwang? I've found a lot of his hand examples are from live play and maybe not relevant.

    Mandatory 3-bet pre? We have KK with nut flush draw and 2nd nut flush draw potential. I'm still very new to PLO so I'm always just calling these types of one pair hands because unless I hit a set or FD I'm unsure where I'm at. Poor reasoning, I know. Why exactly are you 3-betting it mate?

    What's his rough range for c/r me here? I haven't see many c/r at all so I find it hard to assign him a range. I guess just sets, straights, 2 pair and big draws maybe?
     PLO overpair + nut flush draw vs c/r Quote
    05-17-2012 , 07:12 PM
    vs. made hands, our hand is crushed by everything in that range. His c/r in this spot will contain mostly made hands. So yes fold
     PLO overpair + nut flush draw vs c/r Quote
    05-17-2012 , 07:13 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carlos_Tevez
    Haha what's up with the Hwang? I've found a lot of his hand examples are from live play and maybe not relevant.

    Mandatory 3-bet pre? We have KK with nut flush draw and 2nd nut flush draw potential. I'm still very new to PLO so I'm always just calling these types of one pair hands because unless I hit a set or FD I'm unsure where I'm at. Poor reasoning, I know. Why exactly are you 3-betting it mate?

    What's his rough range for c/r me here? I haven't see many c/r at all so I find it hard to assign him a range. I guess just sets, straights, 2 pair and big draws maybe?
    Because we have a strong hand which we can isolate and play in position. No need to nut hug when it's HU

    edit: Hwang's book's section on starting hands is good. However rest of it is nittier than my grandma
     PLO overpair + nut flush draw vs c/r Quote
    05-17-2012 , 07:20 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KelvinKe
    Because we have a strong hand which we can isolate and play in position. No need to nut hug when it's HU

    edit: Hwang's book's section on starting hands is good. However rest of it is nittier than my grandma
    Yeah I guess if we can isolate them in a HU pot, but that always seems less likely to me when it's pot-limit pre and everyone has implied odds/direct odds to call a lot of the time. Maybe I should try it more

    I've read Hwang's first book which is the one you're referring to but it's not the one I'm talking about here. The first book is I believe aimed at full ring games but the book I'm talking about is the first of his 3 volume series and is focused on shorthanded play.

    Thanks for all the help btw guys, great advices.
     PLO overpair + nut flush draw vs c/r Quote
    05-17-2012 , 07:25 PM
    Ofc but it depends on the blinds. If the blinds are extremely loose even vs. 3 bets then it's more profitable to call. However it's not the end of the world if we 3bet MP and one/2 of the blinds come along since our hand does well MW as well as HU.
     PLO overpair + nut flush draw vs c/r Quote
    05-17-2012 , 07:26 PM
    Most people aren't comfortable playing 3 bet pots OOP, identify those people and 3bet them relentlessly (given other factors and position ofc)
     PLO overpair + nut flush draw vs c/r Quote

          
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