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Deep stacked against aggro/drunk player Deep stacked against aggro/drunk player

07-30-2021 , 08:52 PM
Same villain as another hand I posted, but I've played with him a lot more and understand him better.

History of him - somewhat drunk, although a bit competent. Was very flashy with his cash (had way more than he would need at this game), but would buy-in short and jam preflop blind in holdem rounds (took out AA and KK doing this). He's a pretty bad Omaha player and doesn't even like the game, but didn't want to drive to another cardroom to play Hold'em only.

1/2 5 to go (for Omaha) Round of Each game. We're about 4 hours into the session. I've run up $600 to around $2500. Villain has been playing a short stack most the night, I stacked him in a bomb pot fairly recently as well. He rebuys $100, then adds on $1000 a bit later.... (he was quite stuck, maybe was hoping to double up and get even?).

I have A537 on the button. I limp after 6 limpers (never folding a suited ace for $5 in this game on the button), and V pots to $40. 5 players call, I make the call. Most players are around $300-600 deep, I cover everyone, and V has $1300.

Flop is T62

V pots for $245.

Folds to me. Guy typically has been bullying and will a lot of times back down to aggression.

He's a fairly unsophisticated Omaha player and thinks like a Hold'em player so I figure his raise is a big poket pair. I've got nut flush draw (and unfortunately too many) and a gut shot. My ace very well could be good if it hits if he has KK (6 combos vs 3 combos AA), I'm very likely flipping here, and I have fold equity.

I decide to repot to $980.

Guy pulls out a coin, starts making a scene about it. Flips it maybe 20 times, looking for the answer, starts talking about how he goes against the coin if he feels it. Flips it on the deciding time, it lands inside the cupholder and lands sideways to tilt him even more.

I keep a very relaxed mood. I'm fairly indifferent, if he calls, I can't be in that bad shape (especially since he hasn't called yet, which he would with a set), and if he folds, I'm happy to take it down.

Besides the obvious "fold preflop, you donkey", any reason to think that potting flop was the wrong decision?

FWIW, my reputation there is that I'm pretty aggressive but not overly bluffy, so people give me way too much credit on a lot of hands.
Deep stacked against aggro/drunk player Quote
07-30-2021 , 09:33 PM
Can't imagine doing anything different at any point.
Deep stacked against aggro/drunk player Quote
07-31-2021 , 03:08 AM
your on the BTN with a hand that gives you possible nut flush and draws to go with. preflop is more than ok. from there, everything looks fine. i'd probably pot it too.

i supposed the question really is if you raise now or set a trap. PLO is a on the come, so raising from position with a draw to the nut isnt a bad thing. if the heart does come then the action can easily draw up.

then again, (1) a non heart 4 brings you a straight (which is probably well disguise too - there are a few back door straight possibilities as well), and (2) if the guy is as aggro and drunk as you say, you might be able to milk them further by letting them think they are ahead / committing themselves for when you do hit. you havent really said what happened after so ....
Deep stacked against aggro/drunk player Quote
07-31-2021 , 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merv303
you havent really said what happened after so ....
Honestly this hand seems so standard that I imagine we wouldn't be hearing about it if it had ended well...
Deep stacked against aggro/drunk player Quote
07-31-2021 , 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips
Honestly this hand seems so standard that I imagine we wouldn't be hearing about it if it had ended well...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merv303
your on the BTN with a hand that gives you possible nut flush and draws to go with. preflop is more than ok. from there, everything looks fine. i'd probably pot it too.

i supposed the question really is if you raise now or set a trap. PLO is a on the come, so raising from position with a draw to the nut isnt a bad thing. if the heart does come then the action can easily draw up.

then again, (1) a non heart 4 brings you a straight (which is probably well disguise too - there are a few back door straight possibilities as well), and (2) if the guy is as aggro and drunk as you say, you might be able to milk them further by letting them think they are ahead / committing themselves for when you do hit. you havent really said what happened after so ....
Na the interesting part was already covered. He ended up folding "an overpair", or so he claimed.

I ran the simulator and saw I was barely 50% vs naked overpairs of AA/KK/QQ and started thinking I was making a bit of a mistake given he'll call at the top end of this range, but fold equity when he folds might be worth it.

The debate I had was calling or raising, given I had position. I could have called flop and evaluated turn, but chances are he's barreling the turn no matter what hits and I can't see my river equity. So given I can get it in now and rarely be in awful shape, and get some folds, I decided to go for it. It felt standard, but wanted to make sure this wasn't suicidal of a raise.
Deep stacked against aggro/drunk player Quote
07-31-2021 , 10:56 AM
I would expect to have almost 0 fold equity here. Villain having a large amount of pot/folds in his range on a board that isn't good for his iso range seems very bad. I get that he is near SPR 1 or 2 vs some of the players in the hand, but he should still factor in being deep with you. He should be extremely deficient in sets relative to the other 5 players in my opinion. With that said, if you thought you have fold equity + villain barreling nearly every turn card (which also seems very bad to me) then ripping this in now seems like the clear play.
Deep stacked against aggro/drunk player Quote
07-31-2021 , 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwai lo
I would expect to have almost 0 fold equity here. Villain having a large amount of pot/folds in his range on a board that isn't good for his iso range seems very bad. I get that he is near SPR 1 or 2 vs some of the players in the hand, but he should still factor in being deep with you. He should be extremely deficient in sets relative to the other 5 players in my opinion. With that said, if you thought you have fold equity + villain barreling nearly every turn card (which also seems very bad to me) then ripping this in now seems like the clear play.
V is not a good Omaha player, so him potting into 7 people with a mediocre hand is certainly plausible. My thought is he would think AA or KK here is a really strong hand. But would quickly reevaluate when I shove. And given my nut flush draw I don't have to worry about AA with flush draw. I could be in hurt if he had KK with flush draw just to steal outs, but my ace is now live.

I doubt this guy even knows what SPR means. He just likes to bully people and didn't realize he can't bully me.

This is a previous pot against this guy where I felt like I misplayed it being too passive.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...11/?highlight=
Deep stacked against aggro/drunk player Quote
07-31-2021 , 12:09 PM
Given your reads ripping it in seems like the clear play. Apply pressure to his weak range and punish him for betting hands that should be checks. Take advantage of fold equity + always getting to realize your equity.

Him having KK + fd isn't even a concern. A hand like KK87 fd is a flip. Getting it in vs something like this in this scenario would be a win for me.

board: Th 6h 2d
Hand Equity Wins Ties
Kh 8h 7c Ks 51.46% 422 0
Ah 5h 3h 7d 48.54% 398 0
Deep stacked against aggro/drunk player Quote
07-31-2021 , 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwai lo
Given your reads ripping it in seems like the clear play. Apply pressure to his weak range and punish him for betting hands that should be checks. Take advantage of fold equity + always getting to realize your equity.

Him having KK + fd isn't even a concern. A hand like KK87 fd is a flip. Getting it in vs something like this in this scenario would be a win for me.

board: Th 6h 2d
Hand Equity Wins Ties
Kh 8h 7c Ks 51.46% 422 0
Ah 5h 3h 7d 48.54% 398 0
Yeah, was trying to figure out what hands I'm really not wanting to see call, other than obvious ones like sets with a flush draw and backdoor flush draw to the other flush, and it's pretty hard not to be at 42% equity with just his calling range, and given he is going to lay down some hands where his equity could be as high as 50%.

I wish I had a recording of this guy's reaction to the bet. He pretty much pegged me for a flush draw, but didn't realize that even if that's what I had, he still wasn't in great shape. Given I would play a set here the same way, he's got a pretty standard fold.

Given how unlikely his range is to have connected here, I wonder how weak my hand could have been to re-potted here. Something like a pair + gutshot might have been even correct to fold, or pair + backdoor nut flush. I was just too worried this guy was eager to get unstuck and viewed it as an opportunity to gamble even when he knows he's drawing thin.

For context, an earlier hand where I stacked him in a holdem 2 board bomb pot:

I have 3c 8c in middle position.

Board one is 4 5 K with one club
Board two is 3 3 7

MP bets, I call, drunk guy raises big, MP folds, I call.

I assume drunk guy is all in since he's been short stacking all night. I flip over a 3 out of a courtesy. He's not all in. Oops. He says something about thinking we are chopping, meaning to me he probably has the other board locked up with a set or something.

Turn on board 1 is a 7, board 2 a K.

I rip it with the equity to scoop, he calls.

River is 6 on board 1, and 4 on board 2.

He shows 35. The 8 plays on board 2, and the straight gets there. Could have easily been quartered there as well.
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