Villain 1 is a fishy player. High VPIP and doesn't fold to 3 bets ever. Playing about 45% VPIP preflop. When they bet, the usually just mash the pot button.

Hero 180BB
Villain 1 300BB MP
Villain 2 200BB CO
We are 5 handed

Preflop: Hero has A Q J 8 in Sb
Villain 1 raises to 3.4BB, Villain 2 calls, btn folds, Hero pots to 14.6BB, BB folds, Both villains call

Flop: 5 4 2 (pot 44.8BB)
Hero bets 22.4BB, Villain 1 raises to 112BB, Villain 2 folds, Hero?

I realize I probably should have checked the flop, but I think the hand probably plays the same way. What would you do if you check and the player bets pot? I can't really call 44BB and then fold a turn bet unimproved.

I checked on flop hero and at 100BB it says that this hand is a check fold when facing a potsized bet. Seems a bit insane, but if the 4 is a club then it's a bet and get it in.

It is so much easier for us if you post using $ instead of BB.

I don't 3bet pre, especially from OOP. Flop depends on how fishy V1 is. Would he do this w/ a K-hi or Q-hi flush draw or some other draw (can't thin of many) so that an A would be good for you? If so, just gii. If he has only sets or straights, fold. It looks pretty, but it's only nine outs at best.

What? That is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

3-bet is very good against weak players. I'd absolutely 3-bet this hand all night long OOP.

Yes you can. As played I think you need to fold.

This is a great hand to 3b pre. I am checking range on flop.

You must hang out with a lot of brilliant people.

We don't know they are weak players. We have info on only one player, and we are out of position. We 3bet the fishy/weak player, flop the nut flush draw out of position, and we fold. Why, again, are we 3betting the fishy/weak player from OOP with this hand? What flop, exactly, were you hoping for? LOL. Well played.

If you don't wanna 3bet premium holding gtfo with your bullshit. When you 3bet you don't hope. You play for EV your hand.

Again, what flop were you hoping for against the fishy player? Just three diamonds? How can anyone advocate for a 3bet with this hand, hit this flop, bet it, get HU with the fishy player, and fold to the fishy player's re-raise?

I'm fine w/ the 3bet in position. I might be fine OOP vs. one player who I know is bad, but I'm sure as hell not folding vs. that one fishy/weak/bad player if I hit this flop. (Just reread the OP, and I'm gii here every time vs. this player.)

Who are you, anyway? You didn't even reply to the hand. LOL. Very productive.

Well, at least we know poker isn't dead with people like that around!

You have not addressed any of my points. You advocate for a 3bet from OOP vs a very fishy player who calls all 3bets and button pushes for pot yet you want to fold on this flop vs that very same player? Why? You knew he was going to call the 3bet. What flop were you continuing on? This looks pretty darn good vs. described player, yet now you want to fold. Poker is alive and well.

The deeper you are the less you should be 3 betting OOP, especially if your opponent is tough. The goal of 3 betting is to build a pot with a superior hand, but 200 bb+ deep against a good opponent you're going to be getting owned OOP. Against these villains its fine given at least one is fishy, but can make an argument to just call. Flop is fine to bet - we can have AA3, and we have a lot of Ax here as well as diamonds so I think our range is protected. Given the description of villain 1 it seems he calls extremely wide, and only raises when he's very strong. My guess is his potting with these stacks is extremely strong and wouldn't include bare K/Q high FD's and other looser hands esp 3 way. Would fold this - if he does show up with some very loose holdings you'll have no problem exploiting him down the road.

Obviously I agree about the 3betting. Just curious why you think V1 raises when he's strong? I didn't see anything in the description referring to that, only that when he bets, he just bets pot -- nothing about strength.

Villain 1 is a fishy player. High VPIP and doesn't fold to 3 bets ever. Playing about 45% VPIP preflop. When they bet, the usually just mash the pot button.

Would love to hear more from OP on this.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Villain had Ah7h3h3s and we bricked.

Regarding what I see with some villains, is that some players seem to usually have one bet size 90% of the time. IF they bet, they bet pot. Once in a while you will see a different bet size on the flop (maybe 1/2 pot), but if you call the flop, the turn is going to be a pot sized bet.

What did you put V on? Would he do this with a draw or KK/QQ-type hand?

I do really agree with this. After the 3! Oop you pretty much hit a nut flop. When action is being pushed back on you, you can't fold.

Its a weird spot, but you got yourself in it.

Yeh I misworded that - I just think for him to pot the flop 3 way this deep he has to be extremely strong given how deep we are. A lot of these guys who VPIP high only usually play straightforward - call way too wide, and when they raise they have a strong range.