So this is from a while back but I was just thinking about it.

Was a small daily tourney, 5 people paid and 7 left. One guy makes a big bet (I think the callers thought he was all in) gets 2 callers, one that is shorter than him and one that has him covered. Guy that has him covered wins the pot so 6 left.

Guy that made the initial bet now has a 1BB stack. He asks for a bubble pool so the bubble gets paid. I refuse to do it, saying I'm basically just donating money to the 1BB guy. I then get verbally abused by the guy and 2 other players at the table. "It's etiquette man it doesn't matter how many chips he has"

Was I OOL?

Nope, they were the ones OOL, and any competent floor would've made them stop.

https://www.cardplayer.com/cardplaye...-the-best-deal

You are never out of line for proposing any deal, accepting any deal, or rejecting any deal. It does not matter whether your position makes sense or not. You can only be out of line for how you behave or what you say, not the basic decision itself.

And in this case, it is a -EV deal for you. No way that should ever be interpreted as out of line for you to reject such a deal.

However, in these small daily tourneys, people develop habits like this. "We always pay the bubble." "We always do an even chop once down to 3-4 players." None of that matters. You do what you want, and just be polite as you say your piece.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

We were four people left on a Cardplayer circuit event. Three regs and a regional pro. The pro was short stacked. A deal was proffered, one of the regs said no way with that guy so low. The pro just kind of looked and nodded, maybe said something to the effect 'Yeah, I wouldn't chop now either'. Of course, he doubled up, and then won another pot, and we chopped.

The point of this story is that a deal is never personal. It is never about courtesy or etiquette, it is about maximizing your $EV. I've been tghe short stack before, and openly joked about loving a chop because I was going to bubble otherwise, but I never felt entitled to a chop.

The second point of this story is that I like telling stories, even when they are boring and don't go anywhere.

As with most things in life, it comes down to presentation. If Mr BB had jokingly asked if there was a bubble pool rather than 'ask' for one to be developed perhaps some viewpoints would be different. (Could he have been angling, knowing he wouldn't be eliminated and thus eligible for the pool?)

Certainly this should be discussed when the FT sits down .. not when you get to the bubble point IMO. Some casinos/rooms don't allow 'deal' discussions until they are applicable, so that can be an issue, yes. But I've never heard of a casino swashing a bubble payment discussion.

My first tournament cash ever there was a chop talk at 4 left. I told them I didn't know what they meant. I knocked out a guy in the last hand before a break and the other two basically hounded me the whole break on how a chop worked. (Everyone gets paid, then goes into the bowling alley and chops up the cash) I told them I wanted to play it out ... they weren't happy. So first hand after break they both go all-in and basically chip dump me into 2nd place money ... that'll teach me to take their 'deal' next time!! GL

PS ... No, you weren't out of line. But I will say that it can be personal, even though it shouldn't be.

PSS ... I know of a big stack refused a chop when they asked him to give up $700 of 'his' $5200 1st place. Things didn't go well after that. He lost some pots, the table then refused 'his' chop offer and he was the next one out of the tournament ... obv for much less than $4500.

I have seen situations where a player will approach the floor\TD during a break, or away from the table, and let them know that they will not chop or pay the bubble, but they do not want to be identified. When the inevitable conversation comes up, the floor will simply say 'A player has already declined any deals, so play will continue'. It sometimes takes a few repetitions before the more hard heads players let it go.

no he was out of line for asking for this nonsense with one blind left.
paying the bubble just creates a new bubble that has already passed. the reason people do it is bc often times a tournament slows to a crawl on the bubble. in this case the guy has one blind so that isn't even an issue.people are also risk averse pussies so they do things like paying the bubble. i rarely play tournaments but have always refused to pay the bubble as people fold way too much with a bubble. i supposed if people were dumb enough to want to do a bubble when I had 1bb left i'd agree.

I have been that <3bb short stack before (either on the bubble or ITM). When they started talking chop, I looked at them incredulously and said 'really? Hell yeah!' I even have asked a few times 'Are you guys sure?'

Of course, I am also the idiot that gave the big stack a few extra hundred than what we agreed on, because I was the short stack and thought he got brow beat into a bad deal. Yes, I was under zero obligation to do so, but I felt it was right.

I think you were out of line by making it personal.

I would just have said "No" or "No I'm not interested in a deal at this time"

By making it about donating money to the short stack its just rubbing salt in the wound. Much like a slow roll. It doesn't change anything, but it is offensive.

I was playing in a daily tourney once and we were down to 7 players and they wanted to chop. As I was the chip leader, I said "I don't want to chop now" or something like that. One of the players said "if you don't chop now I'm not chopping ever" which was bullying and stupid. I still chose not to chop.

Offensive is the OP getting verbally abused by these players

Early in my poker tournament "career" we got down to 5 players, 4 got paid, and the shorty (~4 or 5 bb) asked about paying the bubble his tournament entry back. I initially said no, but everyone nagged me to do it. I had only been playing a short while so I went along to get along. I knew I'd been an idiot when the guy literally said "Alright! Now I can play some poker!". He went on a tear and <30 minutes later was chip leader.

I went from 2nd big stack to getting knocked out. One of the pricks said "You should be glad you changed your mind and we're paying the bubble."

No, I didn't go to jail for punching him, but I've never agreed to a bubble payout since then.

That too.

The question OP asked was, was he out of line? I think he was, though probably unintentionally.

The reasoning I've heard for paying the bubble is to speed up the game. Short stacks will drag things out to try to get into the money. But if you always pay the bubble, then bubble+1 is the new bubble, so won't people just drag things out one spot earlier? It never made sense to me.

Nah what you did was fine. I would probably just decline the bubble payout and not really go into why. Once you say no, its kinda a done deal as everyone has to agree to it.

Personally, I would just explain how idiotic it would be to give a 1bb stack a min cash and take $ away from each other player in the tourny and wouldn't care too much if the other players got mad at you. I doubt others would agree to bubble payout if hero has 1bb stack so why would you just give up equity in this spot.

To avoid conflict, just say no and give no reason. Its dead when not all players agree to the stipulation.

Really? I think the 1BB stack asking for a bubble pay was out of line.

Why not both?

+1000

if op was out of line his opponent was 100 times more out of line

I don’t like to chop unless it would give me a benefit. If the other people don’t like it, so what? They can refuse to chop with me then, which is fine by me. If someone asks why, I just tell them I feel like gambling.

If the 1BB guy had won that hand, leaving his opponent(s) crippled, would he have still proposed a chop? Doubtful.