1/2 NL, player to my left in seat 8 (younger, unknown) goes to showdown with seat 2, who is your typical OMC regular.

Seat 8 shows pocket tens, seat 2 announces "Ace high" and shows. Dealer pushes $191 to seat 8.

Seat 4, who had no involvement in the hand, says (after dealer already has the cards & readying for next hand) "Hey man, you had a flush, why did you say Ace high?"

Seat 2 says "Oh... well I saw Ace high".

Eventually Seat 2 is talked into asking for a camera review.

About 10 minutes later, the poker room manager comes over to seat 8 to tell him he has to ship $191 back to seat 2 because camera review showed it was a flush.

Needless to say, the young man flips out. He's not given an option to see the camera review, and this happens even after the dealer who didn't correct Seat 2's mistake said "don't worry, the camera doesn't take money away."

Eventually, there are four security guys surrounding our table in case 8 snaps and flips out, but after about 15 minutes he calms down.

Thoughts on this? I honestly didn't realize a camera review could take your $ away. I always thought if a mistake isn't caught by anyone in the hand when it happens then oh well gg.

Seat 8's biggest beef is that it gives the appearance of showing preferential treatment to a regular. I have to admit in the end he handled all of it better than I would have.

Yes mistakes can be corrected. Usually as long as it is questioned before the next hand is dealt.

Impounding the pot pending review is also common.

The fact the seat 4 was not in the hand is irrelevant. Once a hand is tabled, the cards speak. All players are encouraged to speak up if they see an error being made like this. The floor made a pretty bad error here by not taking the money in question off the table. What if seat 8 goes bust and has no more money left? What if he doubles up and wins an extra $200 he shouldn't have?

Of course he wasn't given the option to see the camera. If the casino manager is feeling very generous, he might offer a still shot, but there is about a 0% chance that a player is going to be able to see an actual video review.

The camera didn't take away anybody's money, the camera returned the money to its rightful owner; the player with the best tabled hand.

It's uncommon but it happens. If the hand was tabled and was indeed a flush, he deserves the pot. The player who spoke up was correct in doing so.

Sucks to be seat 8 there, but the pot did not belong to him.

He would be a lot more help if he spoke up when the error could be easily corrected.

What if seat 8 lost all his chips in the meantime and has no more cash?

What if seat 8 has cashed out and gone home?

Maybe seat 4 thought since he announced ace high, it stands.

LOL at the other guy for thinking he got cheated because they won't show him the video.

Dealer didn't see a flush.
Player who announced A-high didn't see a flush.
No one at the table saw a flush... until the cards were irretrievable.

Maybe the floorman is friends with "A-high".

"Show me a screenshot of the flush or I'm calling gaming." Seems reasonable to me.

Thanks for the education here.

But as far as not being entitled to proof, wouldn't it strike any of you as fishy if you were a new player in a room of regs & the manager came over & told you that you lost a pot that players at the table (except 1 guy) thought you had won?

If it happened to you, it wouldn't give you a weird feeling of skepticism in the pit of your stomach? Because that's the feeling I had & I didn't even know the guy who had to ship it back.

You can always ask for a screenshot and in a case like here, you probably have an above average shot of getting one. The floor will never show you the video because he is simply not authorized to do so.

Even if seat 2 and floor are friends, it’s highly likely that the floor hopes that video proves seat 4 wrong so he can avoid all those things that happen if he has to take away money from a player.

No idea why the floor didn’t take the pot out of play until a final decision is made. That’s not how it’s supposed to be.

Whatever weird feeling you or I or a new player would get get, too bad. No room is going to show you the video. That's just not how it works. You trust the floor to not lie to you and the dealers not to cheat you if you want to play there.

Your only option is to report to gaming, which 9 times out of 10 won't do anything but waste your time. But if you feel strongly that you're being cheated, go for it. Just be prepared to be 86ed from the room permanently as a result.

As for feeling cheated, I have misread my hand before plenty of times. I have seen dealers misread hands before. I have seen whole tables misread hands before. There is nothing about the OP which seems out of the realm of possibility to me. In fact, it seems likely that it could easily happen. If he tabled the hand properly, and if the issue was raised before the next shuffle began (or the green button on the shuffler was pressed), then everything has worked exactly how it was supposed to, and whoever it was determined had the best hand should win the pot.

If it happened after the next shuffle had started, then you have more of a case, because even if the pot was awarded incorrectly, the next hand has started, so it should be "too late". But even then some rooms will try to correct the error, and you're basically SOL. Just move on - the best hand won.

There is nothing all that uncommon about this. A player and a dealer misread the hand. Other players have an ethical obligation to speak up if the cards are in fact tabled. Normally, the floor can come over to the table and there will be enough confirmation from the players that yes, Seat 2 had a flush. Occasionally there isn't enough agreement so that's why they go to the cameras. Considering the size of the pot, I would have kept the $191 on the side and kept playing if surveillance couldn't get an answer right away.

The best hand should win the pot assuming no shenanigans by that player.

Dinesh covers most of it ...
1) Does 'show' = tabled? Not totally clear here ... but if a video check was done then 'tabled' probably applies.
2) Ace high was correct (maybe) ... as in Ace high flush ..

3) The next hand had not started (riffle, shuffler button pushed) so the hand can still be reviewed ... even if the pot is pushed and intermingled with other chips (in most rooms).
4) Lots of rooms will take the chips out of play during the review.

5) If Seat 8 cashes out during the review each room will react a little differently than another.
6) If the hand was tabled (showed?) then it's very appropriate for Seat 4 to speak up ... even if it takes a second for his brain to catch up. Hearing the 'Ace high' he may have thought all was well before realizing the pot was going the wrong way. By then most Dealers have already mucked the 'losing' hand and maybe even the Board before pushing the pot.

Certainly not a happy moment, but do you really want chips in your stack that don't belong to you? Reg or not .. mistake or not .. GL

I don't see why it's not standard to bring back the screenshot of the hand in question - prove the camera can distinguish a club from a spade. When I get caught going through a red light, I get a very clear picture and video link in the mail.

The key component of the OP is that the error was pointed out while the dealer was readying the cards for the next hand and had not yet begun dealing the next hand.

Once the cards are in the air for the next hand the previous hand is over and a camera review (or any other sort of review) is not an option.

He's talking about during the review ... They didn't pull the chips out during the review. What if Seat 8 busts the next hand? What if he 'knows' what's coming and hits the cashier and goes on down the road? Does the casino make it up? (Doubtful) GL

What my room will typically do is put a note in the file that "Seat 8" owes restitution of $191 to "Seat 2" before he can come in and play again. Obviously easier if the player is well known.

It's not standard because casinos as a rule don't want to publicize the quality and arrangement of their surveillance capabilities to outside parties (i.e. players).

They don't need to show you anything to make a ruling about who the chips belong to. That is all part of "All rulings by the management are final."

When you run a red light, you get a picture because they want to convince you to plead and not to fight it. If you challenge it in court, you can ask to see the evidence which will be presented against you. There is no such requirement for a casino to make a ruling in poker.

What does OP mean by "show"? Did only seat 4 see it or was it properly tabled? If properly tabled, tough luck for seat 8. If only seat 4 saw it he should have kept his mouth shut.

More interesting is what seat 8's options are. Is he legally allowed to refuse giving the chips, cash out and walk (although permanently) or is it considered theft? My guess is he has no obligation to give away chips when he received the pot from the casino without a shred of evidence.

Yeah, that's just not even close to true. Cards speak.

The legality of seat 8's options will vary by jurisdiction.

IANAL

From what I understand, in Nevada seat 8 might be restrained and arrested for taking the money with him once the floor has ruled that the chips belong to another player.

In most other jurisdictions he would not be restrained or arrested. The casino might 86 him until he repaid the debt. Player 4 could also file a civil suit to recover the chips that were rightfully his. Or player 8 might find himself on the wrong side of an asskicking out in the parking lot.

No, it is exactly true in many rulesets. Here is RRoP:

Usually the rule in Vegas rooms is "hand is over when the pot is pushed". Maybe that's changed, I haven't seen this kind of occurrence in years.

It varies I'm sure .. and maybe within the same room they would give you different answers but these are most prevalent ...

1) First riffle of the next hand .. or
2) When the Dealer pushes the button on the shuffler to get the deck for the next hand.

We had a mess a while back where a player was pushed the pot before the Dealer had mucked the 'losers' face down hand. This player then realized he had filled the gutter of a straight and tabled his hand.

In that case the Floor ruled 'Dealer error' that the holding (and Board) should've been mucked before the pot was pushed and allowed the 'winner' (a reg) to keep the pot. Figure that one out ... GL

Not that I have seen it that frequently either, but I am pretty sure most rooms in Vegas have a similar rule to most other rooms in the world that a hand is over when the next one starts.

A “hand over when pot is pushed” rule means that if the dealer has a brain fart and pushes the pot to seat 6 after correctly declaring seat 2 the winner of the hand, seat 2 would be out of luck. That sounds pretty ridiculous to me.