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STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

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Old 05-21-2020, 04:25 AM   #1
Nimzo
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Join Date: Apr 2020
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Success in 888 9-max turbos but losing in Stars 6-max?

Hello,

So I was building a bankroll on 888, playing 9-max turbos, a mix of $1, $3 and $5s with an ROI of 28% over around 180 SNGs. I know this is a low sample, but the games felt soft and I was frequently finishing in the money by playing straight-forward TAG. I'd have frequent downswings (up to 11 SNGs) but when I didn't lose every flip I'd recuperate losses.

I decided to move to Stars and have been trying the $1.50 6-max turbos. I've only played 36, but have a -20% ROI. The games don't feel tougher, and there are often ~4 chronic limpers (40/12). I'm halfway through Moshmann's SNG book, watched the whole 6-max SNG series by parttimepoker on YouTube and go through my play after with SNG Wizard, so it feels like I should be winning, and not these limptards I always end up with on the bubble. Again, I know 36 is a very small sample but I've not had a bad time like this with the 9-maxs and want to make sure I'm not doing anything wrong before I continue to burn more money.

Does anyone have any advice for these? Maybe I am loosening up too much and being too aggressive (as per advice of YouTube series), because these people don't fold to c-bets, so if I raise, miss the flop and c-bet, that is already a dent in my stack. It doesn't feel like I have time to tighten up much either as the blinds hit me more. Also a lot of players get eliminated early so the bubble is often during mid-blinds, when my stack is too big to shove, but still, if I raise KTs, miss flop completely, c-bet and get called, I'm no longer the big stack, and it doesn't feel like I should barrel and hope to win at showdown since I should have an edge over these players. Do I just stop c-betting?

Any help is much appreciated, or general advice. I know this is vague and I've provided no hand histories but maybe someone has some useful advice based on similar experiences.
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Old 05-21-2020, 09:42 AM   #2
Theagent77
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Re: Success in 888 9-max turbos but losing in Stars 6-max?

I honestly believe you should start making some assumption's after 100 games at least, even more if game is turbo. Do your best and don't get disheartened
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:47 AM   #3
whitedragon67
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Re: Success in 888 9-max turbos but losing in Stars 6-max?

any reason why you are trying to switch to a 6-max?
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:46 AM   #4
Nimzo
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Re: Success in 888 9-max turbos but losing in Stars 6-max?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theagent77 View Post
I honestly believe you should start making some assumption's after 100 games at least, even more if game is turbo. Do your best and don't get disheartened
Thank you. I played over 100 and kept losing so I switched back to 9max which I was doing well at, done another 100 50c 9max and still losing on Stars. Finished SNG strategy, been watching videos, analysing my play, studying push/fold etc so hopefully it turns around soon.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:49 AM   #5
Nimzo
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Re: Success in 888 9-max turbos but losing in Stars 6-max?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitedragon67 View Post
any reason why you are trying to switch to a 6-max?
I read Grinder's Manual and I play 6-max cash (though focusing on SNGs currently) so thought I should try 6-max, then when I was losing constantly I didn't want to give up so I pushed through trying to improve. However it was depleting my bankroll so I moved to the 50c 9-max to build up but I'm losing at those too despite lots of studying. Not a huge sample though.
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Old 06-02-2020, 02:53 AM   #6
AALegend
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Re: Success in 888 9-max turbos but losing in Stars 6-max?

Make sure you pay attention to what the population does against you. Some of the strategies that are effective at the higher stakes might not be effective at the lower stakes, when recs playing $1 sit n go's for fun just don't care about the bubble and would rather see what happens with a fun hand like T9s.
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Old 06-17-2020, 05:21 AM   #7
whitedragon67
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Re: Success in 888 9-max turbos but losing in Stars 6-max?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimzo View Post
I read Grinder's Manual and I play 6-max cash (though focusing on SNGs currently) so thought I should try 6-max, then when I was losing constantly I didn't want to give up so I pushed through trying to improve. However it was depleting my bankroll so I moved to the 50c 9-max to build up but I'm losing at those too despite lots of studying. Not a huge sample though.
I asked because 6-max sngs and 9-max sngs are completely different games. if you had success playing 9 max games at 888 I would suggest you continue same format on stars for now

50c games are little different since it doesn't have antes on first 5-7 levels, and is pretty much a begginers fest since its lowest possible bi, and then after 1.5$ games structures are the same

what is worth noticing is that players that are bad generally play more 6 max as it is short handed and the regs are little better then regs at 9-max, i could be wrong there but since the nature of 6 max is more loose and agressive i believe this to be the case

i would say start out with 1.5 9-max games and give it a good sample at least 300 games and then go from there
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Old 06-17-2020, 11:08 AM   #8
ICrushSNGs22
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 281
Re: Success in 888 9-max turbos but losing in Stars 6-max?

Hey,

The samplesizes we are talking here are nowhere near enough to make ANY assumption.
You need thousands of games played to have a rough idea of your ROI - even after like 3000 Games your actual ROI and your EV (expected value) could still differ by 2-3%. I don't want to discourage you or anything (and I know at first glance it does) but that is the truth. SNGs and especially STTs are a grind, volume usually makes the money and high ROIs (like the 26% you had on 888) are definitely not sustainable, even if games are very soft.

If you prefer having a relatively high ROI and do not care about hourly-rate, then I would advise you to play nonturbo SNGs. Especially the KOs on Stars are a good format where high ROIs are achievable.

On the other hand, the reason why most people grind turbos or Hypers is hourly rate - profit per time spent is usually higher in these and that is what Grinders usually care about (because, for example, 20 Games per hour on 4% ROI makes more money than 10 Games per hour at 6% ROI).

One more thing - I would also advise you to take fresh content to improve your game. Moshmans Book for example is nowhere near up to date in terms of the skillset you need nowadays. I would advise you to take an affordable SNG-Coach or to get a subscription on a Coaching site - though STTs are not very common in produced content there.

Gl
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:36 AM   #9
Nimzo
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 10
Re: Success in 888 9-max turbos but losing in Stars 6-max?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICrushSNGs22 View Post
Hey,

The samplesizes we are talking here are nowhere near enough to make ANY assumption.
You need thousands of games played to have a rough idea of your ROI - even after like 3000 Games your actual ROI and your EV (expected value) could still differ by 2-3%. I don't want to discourage you or anything (and I know at first glance it does) but that is the truth. SNGs and especially STTs are a grind, volume usually makes the money and high ROIs (like the 26% you had on 888) are definitely not sustainable, even if games are very soft.

If you prefer having a relatively high ROI and do not care about hourly-rate, then I would advise you to play nonturbo SNGs. Especially the KOs on Stars are a good format where high ROIs are achievable.

On the other hand, the reason why most people grind turbos or Hypers is hourly rate - profit per time spent is usually higher in these and that is what Grinders usually care about (because, for example, 20 Games per hour on 4% ROI makes more money than 10 Games per hour at 6% ROI).

One more thing - I would also advise you to take fresh content to improve your game. Moshmans Book for example is nowhere near up to date in terms of the skillset you need nowadays. I would advise you to take an affordable SNG-Coach or to get a subscription on a Coaching site - though STTs are not very common in produced content there.

Gl
Hello, thanks a lot for your comment. Do you have any recommendations in particular for learning the skillset, such as particular books, coaching sites etc? I would like to study with a coach at some point however I wasn't sure it was worth it currently since I'm playing microstakes and just trying to build a bankroll. I actually want to primarily play MTTs eventually and just need the bankroll to play them, if this would change your advice. I'm playing 45-man regulars with some success at the moment.
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