Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-31-2020, 01:00 AM   #1
Highspirit1978
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 342
Pocket 7s shove?? good or bad

PokerStars - 20/40 NL (3 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 19.8 BB
Hero (SB): 17.7 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7 7

Hero raises to 17.7 BB and is all-in, BB calls 16.7 BB

Flop: (35.4 BB, 2 players) T 4 8

Turn: (35.4 BB, 2 players) 5

River: (35.4 BB, 2 players) 5

Spoiler:



prize was $2.5 for a .25 buy-in spin and go

Last edited by Highspirit1978; 07-31-2020 at 01:01 AM. Reason: added info
Highspirit1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2020, 10:21 AM   #2
JoshDimes
newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 23
Re: Pocket 7s shove?? good or bad

It sucks that you ran into another pocket pair that was higher than yours, but I think it's fine. It's in line with Nash push/fold.

If you raise to 2x-3x, he probably 3-bets to 6x-9x (which is 1/3rd to 1/2 or more of your stack) or puts it all in anyway, and it's really hard to fold 77's in that spot. There are some opponents where I'll shy away from all-in situations (because they're really passive overall and I think I can crush them playing small pots), but under normal circumstances it's probably all going in the middle anyway, so I think the shove is fine.
JoshDimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2020, 10:46 PM   #3
Highspirit1978
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 342
Re: Pocket 7s shove?? good or bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshDimes View Post
It sucks that you ran into another pocket pair that was higher than yours, but I think it's fine. It's in line with Nash push/fold.

If you raise to 2x-3x, he probably 3-bets to 6x-9x (which is 1/3rd to 1/2 or more of your stack) or puts it all in anyway, and it's really hard to fold 77's in that spot. There are some opponents where I'll shy away from all-in situations (because they're really passive overall and I think I can crush them playing small pots), but under normal circumstances it's probably all going in the middle anyway, so I think the shove is fine.
thank you for your comment, it was really helpful. Take care
Highspirit1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 01:32 PM   #4
AlanBostick
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AlanBostick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Old Man Red Bull (he/him)
Posts: 10,479
Re: Pocket 7s shove?? good or bad

According to HRC, just shoving preflop wins you 3.5 bb on average; but if you raise to 3bb with intent to call a shove, you win 5.4 bb on average. Next time a spot like this comes up, don't shove but raise.

As for the result, well, coolers happen.
AlanBostick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 07:19 PM   #5
warewulf
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 704
Re: Pocket 7s shove?? good or bad

Agree with @Alanbostick. I like to raise there pre, but don't want to get all in.

With a medium pair, I want to see the flop first. If it's not a scary board, I will play aggressive, but still not looking to go all in unless I hit a set and there's no big draws (flush/straight).

I'm not looking to push with 77 unless I'm short stacked.
warewulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2020, 04:40 PM   #6
AlanBostick
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AlanBostick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Old Man Red Bull (he/him)
Posts: 10,479
Re: Pocket 7s shove?? good or bad

Hero starts with only 17bb. It's not like we're deep-stacked.

If we raise and get called, we are pretty much shoving every flop except the very worst.
AlanBostick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2020, 04:45 PM   #7
warewulf
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 704
Re: Pocket 7s shove?? good or bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
Hero starts with only 17bb. It's not like we're deep-stacked.

If we raise and get called, we are pretty much shoving every flop except the very worst.
Maybe with ~10bb or less to shove. 17bb and I'm not in a hurry to get all in and hope for a coin flip, hopefully not dominated. I just don't get too excited about a mediocre PP.
warewulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2020, 07:35 PM   #8
AlanBostick
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AlanBostick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Old Man Red Bull (he/him)
Posts: 10,479
Re: Pocket 7s shove?? good or bad

If we weren't relying on tools like ICMizer or HRC and were constructing ranges from scratch, at 17bb, I think we want to open/shove (or call AI) with our very strongest hands, open/fold with weak hands that have some equity and more blocker potential (e.g. A7o or KTo) and shove with a range in between, hands whose equity we want to realize and not get blown off of through postflop play. Crappy pocket pairs belong in the third range, the shoving range.

I would have a hard time, without the software tools' help, deciding whether pocket sevens belonged in the shoving range or the open/all-in range. My having run the hand through HRC, it is clear to me that 77 belongs in the open/all-in range.
AlanBostick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 06:14 AM   #9
mtgalex
grinder
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 607
Re: Pocket 7s shove?? good or bad

77 is a pretty sexy inducing hand this deep. When 3 betted of cause get it in.

22-55 is much better shoving candidate.
mtgalex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2020, 02:10 PM   #10
insomnia666
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 45
Re: Pocket 7s shove?? good or bad

Shove is better if you want an "aggro image" . I mean we can start to fold from SB and waiting for a good hands. And this is +EV. And 77 is very good for shove. Can be limp-shove, if you used that earlier (limp). Can be raise (2x), if he is some passive fish or All in ape. But as default shove is a good option.

Last edited by insomnia666; 09-20-2020 at 02:18 PM.
insomnia666 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online